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» Good News Regarding The Portal

Geoffrey   


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Post #21

QUOTE(Joe D @ Nov 9 2017, 09:20 AM) *
This website is far better than any of the FB flute sites !


I have to agree. When I joined FB I got involved in a few groups and I found them very disappointing. As someone pointed out in another thread, FB groups have a certain immediate advantage in terms of quick responses and the acceptance of asking the same questions repeatedly. Meaning, when someone comes to an online forum, the etiquette that is generally accepted is that before asking basic questions, any new member should do a database search first. This is because there is a database that CAN be searched! On FB, that is not practical and so you are likely to see a lot of the same questions over and over again, and interesting discussions sink and vanish as soon as they take a break. How many cool threads on this site have been "revived", sometimes years later? Try that on Facebook.

Also, I'll go out on a limb and predict that social media is going to experience a sort of the-honeymoon-is-over type of exodus. Probably not massively nor universally, but I gather it has already begun. I talk to people who "used to be on Facebook" but are tired of it. All the data-mining, profiling, predictive algorithms, ads, etc.. is all too invasive. Many folks don't care, but I think for many of us who grew up before the internet it all seems a bit too much. I'm not saying there are not positive aspects to social media but I'm inclined to think that the negatives far outnumber the positives. At the very least I approach social media very cautiously.

But online communities are still awesome and the classic forum is alive and well, and I expect it will continue to be.


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Terry B   


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Post #22

Yes,
all I can say to that Geoffrey is, you are correct. wink.gif
It's all "here today - gone tomorrow" with posts.
and I do agree that people are tiring of it. It is just a very surface way of communication with no real way
to jump into older conversations without scrolling down (and down) for a millennium until you may actually hit something.
If the Portal keeps going it would be great!


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Keith Glowka   


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Post #23

Interesting observations, Geoffrey, especially with this coming out today from Facebook's founding president:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/facebo...4b0f76b05c3d65a

I started noticing the damage that social media causes before there even was a Facebook...back when MySpace was the thing. Social media gives folks an illusion of anonymity in a venue that is the polar opposite of anything anonymous! And, that perceived anonymity makes some folks say things that can never be taken back. Relationships get damaged. Dynamics between family and friends often degrade. I've seen it happen too often.

Personal interaction seems to temper what people will say to each other. But, interaction in a venue that the whole world can access seems to make people head for the extremes. Social media eventually starts to wear at social restraint. After enough time on social media, some begin to interact personally in the same way they do online. The result is a coarsening of norms of politeness...or the dreaded "agree to disagree". Both shut down reasoned discourse on serious issues, and we all lose in the long run.

Social media is not all bad, but it's often more bad than it is good.

QUOTE(Geoffrey @ Nov 9 2017, 12:43 PM) *
I have to agree. When I joined FB I got involved in a few groups and I found them very disappointing. As someone pointed out in another thread, FB groups have a certain immediate advantage in terms of quick responses and the acceptance of asking the same questions repeatedly. Meaning, when someone comes to an online forum, the etiquette that is generally accepted is that before asking basic questions, any new member should do a database search first. This is because there is a database that CAN be searched! On FB, that is not practical and so you are likely to see a lot of the same questions over and over again, and interesting discussions sink and vanish as soon as they take a break. How many cool threads on this site have been "revived", sometimes years later? Try that on Facebook.

Also, I'll go out on a limb and predict that social media is going to experience a sort of the-honeymoon-is-over type of exodus. Probably not massively nor universally, but I gather it has already begun. I talk to people who "used to be on Facebook" but are tired of it. All the data-mining, profiling, predictive algorithms, ads, etc.. is all too invasive. Many folks don't care, but I think for many of us who grew up before the internet it all seems a bit too much. I'm not saying there are not positive aspects to social media but I'm inclined to think that the negatives far outnumber the positives. At the very least I approach social media very cautiously.

But online communities are still awesome and the classic forum is alive and well, and I expect it will continue to be.


This post has been edited by Keith Glowka: Nov 9 2017, 05:52 PM


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Geoffrey   


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Post #24

Interesting read--thanks, Keith. That dovetails with similar stories about the effects of things like smartphones on society, especially young people.

Social media has another weird twist in that it brings out the narcissist in many people. It gives the illusion of community, but it also motivates people to seek attention and validation online (and I expect it is even more magnetic to those whose personal lives and relationships are not satisfying). I'm always a bit surprised that people are so eager to reveal so much about their personal lives to the public (even if it is a limited public of so-called "friends"). I'm a bit old-fashioned about that sort of thing and I like to keep my personal life personal for the most part, but people put up all sorts of information that I would consider highly personal, with lots of intimate and sometimes graphic details (I've been appalled by all the photos of surgical procedures and the like that folks choose to put on their pages). Staggering. And then there are all of the photos of meals. I just don't get it. And yet, it is ubiquitous on FB and I think the whole dopamine hit/attention/validation thing is in play. You post a photo of something and people "like" it. Some of the things seem post-worthy to me, but the vast majority of stuff I've seen (even from my friends) seems self-indulgent and superfluous. Social media definitely amplifies the tendencies of human ego, and it makes humans do a lot of visible "preening".

Anyway, as with everything the other shoe does eventually drop. Kids raised on the internet, social media and cell phones are having a tough time in the world.





QUOTE(Keith Glowka @ Nov 9 2017, 03:52 PM) *
Interesting observations, Geoffrey, especially with this coming out today from Facebook's founding president:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/facebo...4b0f76b05c3d65a

I started noticing the damage that social media causes before there even was a Facebook...back when MySpace was the thing. Social media gives folks an illusion of anonymity in a venue that is the polar opposite of anything anonymous! And, that perceived anonymity makes some folks say things that can never be taken back. Relationships get damaged. Dynamics between family and friends often degrade. I've seen it happen too often.

Personal interaction seems to temper what people will say to each other. But, interaction in a venue that the whole world can access seems to make people head for the extremes. Social media eventually starts to wear at social restraint. After enough time on social media, some begin to interact personally in the same way they do online. The result is a coarsening of norms of politeness...or the dreaded "agree to disagree". Both shut down reasoned discourse on serious issues, and we all lose in the long run.

Social media is not all bad, but it's often more bad than it is good.



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Rick McDaniel   


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Post #25

The problem with the modern world, is that folks do not interpret what is said, very well. They totally alter the words of others, by their own view of the world. That makes them read words very differently than the words themselves. They jump to conclusions, that are totally inaccurate. I think they do that in their personal interactions as well, and that would lead to conflicts.

Humans have lost their ability to communicate well, with others. Especially with anything ideological. I attribute that, primarily to the PC mentality, which seeks to take control of everyone's mind and actions, and form a collective for mind control.

Social media is not about being social.........it is about being noticed, and about the self-promotion of those who seek attention, and celebrity status, without the resources to actually be a celebrity, which of course, means the money to be recognized as a celebrity. Most of that, is youth, seeking attention, in any way they can. Perhaps that is partly because the world is too populace, which makes it nearly impossible for anyone to get attention from others. There is simply too much competition.

This post has been edited by Rick McDaniel: Nov 10 2017, 05:01 AM


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bigsky   


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Post #26

So anyhow...Brent's gonna fix the Flute Portal and I think that's great!!! Thank you Brent Haines!!!


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Terry B   


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Post #27

Thank you Brent Haines!!!


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Geoffrey   


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Post #28

Yes, I suppose we don't want to travel too far down the philosophical rabbit hole :-) Though the FP is famous for such threads!


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Keith Glowka   


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Post #29

But isn't a philosophical discussion of Facebook somewhat appropriate here?

If the option were taken to move the Flute Portal over to the free services of Facebook, the financial aspects of the situation would be solved. However, the current nature of the Portal would evaporate. There are codes of decorum here that are unenforceable on Facebook. Many of us would simply not make the move.

Some of the more contentious threads that we've seen here get ironed out (or brought under control) because of the rules we have for civility and respect. While it's a shame that such rules are necessary at all, they are essentially nonexistent on Facebook.

Indeed, 👍 👍 for Brent Haines! If it takes a donation request button to keep this site going, I'd gladly contribute. Brent observes the Portal's "no selling" rules as do the rest of us flute makers (not that he has to). The Portal has not been a promotional platform for him...jeez, we barely hear from the bloke! So, I see Brent's willingness to keep this site rolling as a generous community service. ¡Muchas gracias, Señor Haines!

QUOTE(Geoffrey @ Nov 10 2017, 02:44 PM) *
Yes, I suppose we don't want to travel too far down the philosophical rabbit hole :-) Though the FP is famous for such threads!


This post has been edited by Keith Glowka: Nov 10 2017, 06:01 PM


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Geoffrey   


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Post #30

I agree that this digression is actually topical, though I also know that some members are less entranced by the non-flute related discussions or digressions.

Regardless, I think you are right Keith. The Flute Portal wouldn't be the FP if it moved to a social media platform. It would be something else. I've had very little experience with any sort of long-term participation in Facebook user groups, so I don't even know if they have anything akin to moderation, rules of etiquette, or any type of policy enforcement. It didn't seem like it, but I may speak under correction.

But the most obvious advantage of this type of forum is the ability to have different sections with different subjects. Many discussion threads taking place concurrently with the ability of the members to take a bird's eye view. The Facebook format of "commenting" with each comment being amended with "replies" makes for a really clunky reading experience. It might not strike everyone that way, but I find trying to read a discussion that unfolds in that format very challenging. It works for certain types of material but it's no replacement for an online chat board.




QUOTE(Keith Glowka @ Nov 10 2017, 03:41 PM) *
But isn't a philosophical discussion of Facebook somewhat appropriate here?

If the option were taken to move the Flute Portal over to the free services of Facebook, the financial aspects of the situation would be solved. However, the current nature of the Portal would evaporate. There are codes of decorum here that are unenforceable on Facebook. Many of us would simply not make the move.

Some of the more contentious threads that we've seen here get ironed out (or brought under control) because of the rules we have for civility and respect. While it's a shame that such rules are necessary at all, they are essentially nonexistent on Facebook.

Indeed, 👍 👍 for Brent Haines! If it takes a donation request button to keep this site going, I'd gladly contribute. Brent observes the Portal's "no selling" rules as do the rest of us flute makers (not that he has to). The Portal has not been a promotional platform for him...jeez, we barely hear from the bloke! So, I see Brent's willingness to keep this site rolling as a generous community service. ¡Muchas gracias, Señor Haines!



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shewhoflutesinca...   


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Post #31

QUOTE(rocksncactus @ Nov 8 2017, 06:25 AM) *
She means the Native American Flute Making Forum on Facebook.
Thanks, Lizabeth.. that's exactly what I mean! smile.gif



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shewhoflutesinca...   


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Post #32

QUOTE(Keith Glowka @ Nov 7 2017, 06:40 PM) *
What is the "NAIF making forum", Linnie? New one on me.

Thanks!
Oh... I just meant the NAF making group on Facebook that I've joined, Keith. smile.gif I've heard people use 'North American Indigenous' as a preferred term, and I must have just gone with that without thinking.. smile.gif

Although I've actually become 'active' on FB despite my concerns, I've made sure that my personal info is not available, my privacy settings are on high and I only talk to friends or friends of friends on their posts or my real friends via private messenger. I've been on for months, and am very clear about only accepting people that I find very real and pleasant and who share the same interests as 'friends'. It's not my aspiration to gain more 'friends' than anyone I know, in fact I cringe to have to do it but I have already ignored friend requests from total strangers, or even from extended family or people I really know and even like, because I don't need them reading everything I post and I don't need to know their day by day stuff either etc etc.

I do totally understand what people are saying about FB being potentially very unhealthy, though. I also believe like forums like this can be unhealthy, too, although not this particular one, FP, as it is incredibly well-directed and moderated. The only other online forum I was part of had a chat thread that truly was a 'make me feel better' space, where the concept was a safe place to meet and chat, but it ended up being a makeshift counselling session, and even though it was great to see people so generously offering verbal support to needier folk, it became clear that some people needed sympathy top-ups regularly, and doing it through a forum of strangers, via the computer screen, seemed to be not the most effective way of dealing with chronic depression or disenchantment with life., etc.. So I think both formats have their dangers, as well as their benefits.

I also really am grateful for the subdivision into separate forums here at FP so that one can keep a grip on a conversation, which, yes, can easily become problematic with FB... But I also love just how many people reply and how quickly on FB.. and the answer to the question you ask is immediately pertinent, so if I need to understand something right there and then, there will a flurry of activity and I can sift through answers and see which feels right to me.. all within minutes.. For furthering a conversation, there is also the private message option on FB, too, same as here.

Whatever people think of FB, and I do have my reservations, I personally think there's room for both, and I will always remain grateful for this Portal, as I learned and am still learning so much via you folk. smile.gif .

And perhaps its because I belong to only two groups, flute-making and gardening, that I haven't seen bad behaviour as a problem on FB... Flute-makers and gardeners are such lovely and generous people, aren't they! smile.gif

So, I'm very grateful for those of you who won't join FB that the portal will continue, and I'm grateful for we FBers that we can still be Portalites, too!

🌹🌹🌻❤️🌻🌹🌹


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shewhoflutesinca...   


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Post #33

QUOTE(bigsky @ Nov 10 2017, 09:57 AM) *
So anyhow...Brent's gonna fix the Flute Portal and I think that's great!!! Thank you Brent Haines!!!
biggrin.gif



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MonoLoco   


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Post #34

Spoke with Brent at Native Rhythms - he confirmed that things are getting close. Native Rhythms got in the way, a bit, and delayed his projected schedule ... but he's still expecting a new launch very soon!


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Rick McDaniel   


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Post #35

That's good.

Now, how is Rhythms???


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Post #36

How was NRF? As my first festival, it was great ... nothing to compare it with though. Meeting Ed was a highlight (as was trying almost every flute he had!). Weather was chillier than expected, but OK, with some rain but not as bad as it could have been. Performances were great, even Scott August's "solo flute" for his opening piece where only he, via his ear-piece, was hearing his backing track. blink.gif LOL. He played the entire song before he realized it and asked the audience, "What? You guys weren't hearing my backing track?
It's gotta' be tough to think up there, with those bright lights blinding you. As an informal event, such technical glitches are easily overlooked and dismissed ( after appropriate ribbing). I took Scott's Easy Tab workshop and learned a few things. Just a short while ago, when showing one of my flutes to someone, the person asked me to "play the 5th". I had no idea what they meant ... now I do! smile.gif

Meeting several of the flute makers that I've read about over the years was interesting. Aside from Ed, whom I've come to know and respect from the Portal, I had no idea of what all these guys (and their flutes) are like. I got different vibes from different booths/tents. It was good to learn this, as some "clicked" more than others ... both product and personality.

Everything about the festival was terrific ... I only wish the grounds had some proper restroom facilities - I have a phobia of dropping my keys down a Porta-Pottie sad.gif


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Rick McDaniel   


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Post #37

They probably do have proper restrooms somewhere..........but they are probably not anywhere close to, the flute festival location. dry.gif


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rocksncactus   


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Post #38

NRF report:

The weather was weird but typically Florida weather, meaning it's gonna do what it's gonna do. All weekend we had strong winds, sometimes almost gale-force. One vendor's awning collapsed at one point, and folks struggled to keep cloths on tables, etc. With wind comes rain, and it rained a good bit but was on and off. I think as visitors to the festival the only ones who really were unhappy with the weather were the locals who came more to listen to the musical performances. They at some point would get tired of sitting in the rain -- at whichever density it was at that moment -- listening to someone perform and they would pack up and leave. And unfortunately they didn't visit the vendors since they left. So the vendors were probably hurt a bit, which is a shame. However, all the fluties seemed to be having a great time as far as I could tell. I had a ball! There were eight of my flute circle regulars in attendance, including me. We all enjoyed ourselves tremendously.

Yes, meeting Ed and Dawn was definitely a highlight! Scott and I both bought a flute from them before the weekend was over -- as did quite a few other folks. I know Beth (Cha Oha) bought one right at ending time, because I was there with her when that flute jumped off the rack and insisted on being taken home! I got to meet and re-meet so many folks, spent a lot of time speaking to vendors and performers. I bought a gorgeous A from Ed and a really interesting transverse flute in Balinese scale (suling) from George Tortorelli; I think I'm about the only person out there that has a transverse suling! Thanks to Ed for showing George the scale in the first place.

One of my other highlights was meeting Marsha Harris, who not only plays NAF but is a fabulous dulcimer player. She sat in with Randy Granger on a couple of pieces each day. But I'd picked up a dulcimer on the way out of Atlanta, and I showed it to her; she was familiar because I had posted about it on the Everything Dulcimer forum or else on the FB Everything Dulcimer page. Anyway, she replaced a broken string, tuned it, and gave me some pointers on playing a drone-type dulcimer. She's such a nice lady!

I attended three workshops, one each day, and enjoyed them all. That left me plenty of time to run around, but having extra time didn't help me settle on purchases; it's so difficult to decide! However, after a while I finally had been to every booth and things came together. I got some of Amber Dawnn McGann Waite's lightning wood pieces, some little bird whistles from George for nephews' stockings for Christmas, a couple of CDs, some shakers and a flute care kit from Tree of Life, and I've ordered an awesome flute carrying bag from Marsha Kaye Hebbeler, the Marsha you all know who makes the awesome flute stands. My friend Jamie got one of these carrying bags from her last year, and I wanted one. She didn't have one in the size I wanted, so she's going to make me one using the fabric I saw on another bag. It's going to be so great and easier than my hard PVC cases to carry around at an event like NRF or to flute circle.

And then there are the two flutes. I'll post pictures tomorrow and add to my report.

Lizabeth


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rocksncactus   


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Post #39

Here's a picture of my Balinese scale flute, but I'll put the rest of my report in the Native Rhythms thread. The flute is 17 inches long.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  20171114_190515.jpg ( 3.53MB ) Number of downloads: 12
 


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Rick McDaniel   


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Post #40

That transverse Suling might have been one I would have liked. Most of what I buy now is "weird stuff". George makes really nice flutes, and I have a lot of his music as well.

Haven't had a weather problem, other than chilly nights, at NR. So I guess it was just an off year for the weather. That happened to us when we went to ME the last time. It just poured rain on Saturday, and everything shut down for most of the day.

That's the way it goes, for outdoor events. You just never know.


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Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 18th November 2017 - 12:15 AM