Hi gang,
recently I heard an anasazi for the first time...

I have played clarinet in a band and both alto and tenor recorder in a baroque ensemble, but haven't done much but kanoodle around the recorders lately...

My original goal was to find something easy with a pentatonic scale for meditation purposes... til I found out about the whole rim blown thing and listened to a few...
...and have heard of the legendary difficulty of the shakahachi and the ney.

but, that sound has grabbed me along with the lure of the multi octave, and attempting to be cost effective...

and then finding the 'mojave as a good entry to rim blown' on Coyote Oldman's site (sorry I haven't got everyone's real name in my brain yet), and a 'beginner' anasazi....
and then Butch hall has the rain maker and earthtones has both a 'quenasazi' and a.... mmmm... 'regular"?? design... and then the only instruction I could find was for the shak and I wondered about learning on that first (there is also a company that makes pvc shaks for 95 that have been 'engineered' to play better - weight is an issue for me and the shak-yuu weighs over a pound...

any advice on where to start? my past musical experience leans me to getting the best quality instrument I can, but I also know sometimes you get further faster with training wheels...

so do I just go for the sound that grabbed me the most and just hang in there, getting an easy flowing something when I need consoling? go for an 'easy blowing' anasazi - eric the flute maker has one, although the price (if you consider shipping) is pretty much the same as a hard wood angel would be...and he also has a modifed rim blown (cross between a quena and a xiao sort of)... and speaking of the quena is that a place to start???

Do I sound confused? It's only because I am....

and even though I have classical training I need something 'away' from those rules to just play...sort of like the meditative playing it sounds like may be part of shak studies...

so is the quenasazi easier than the anasazi, easier than a shak? any ideas where to start?

Anyhoo, rather than going around the circle again --- any words of wisdom from those of you further down the trail greatly appreciated...


Jade

I reccomend u start by buying a traditional native american flute...Go to highspirts odell borg makes awsome flute's....i have 5 of hiz and i am playing one when u click on my page if u follow the link i love the NAF i have 7 flutes but id reccomend u start from there trust me listen to me on my golden eagle in f# add me to u can also add me to msn haidaboyktn2004@hotmail.com

Islandmoon,I don't have a ton of experience....but I have been trying to play 1st an Anasazi .......That one was really tough to get a sound from!It is a fairly low volume flute as well. Next I got a Shakuhachi Yuu about 5 weeks ago....that was a bit easier to get a nice tone from fairly quickly! Now just today I got a Quena from Peru,and I can say for sure it is the easiest one so far to make decent sounds from! I hope to have a Quenasazi in my hands in a few short weeks,and it should be just as easy as this Quena to play I think from What Geoffrey has told me! Hope that helps just a little!

Hello Jade,
Welcome to the forum.

My first rim blown experience was with a quena. It took me a while to get my first sound but each rim blown is easier than the one before.

Currently I have an Anasita (Mark Purtill), Anasazi (Earth Tone), Mojave (Michael Graham Allen aka Coyote Oldman), Erik Shak, and a more traditional shak in addition to the quena.

IMHO I would tend to recommend the Anasita for a first go. If you have your heart set on a wood flute then I recommend Geofrey Ellis (Earth Tone).

If you want to try a shakuhachi and you don't want to miss a car payment or mortgage your house try an e-Bay shak by sizzor_flute ex:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-3-Root-End-Shakuhach...%3A1%7C294%3A50

Anyway that is just my 2 cents worth. Whatever you choose don't forget to:

ENJOY YOUR FLUTE JOURNEY!

Art

I see this guy's shaks on eBay all the time. They look pretty amazing--though I'm not sure about the high gloss finish. Anyway, given the low prices, I'm just wondering about the sound and how they might compare to other bamboo shaks. I have a Tai Hei 1.8 student model from Monty Levenson I really like a lot, but at some point I might like to get a natural bore shak.

Welcome to the forum, Jade. For relative ease of playing, anything with a quena-style notch like Earth Tone's quenasazi (or an actual quena) will work best. I think I recall someone mentioning that Peter Phippen said the quena was the gateway to embouchure flutes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Jade, the answer is not simple. The scale on the Anasazi is not the same as on the regular NAF, nor is it actually the same on the Mojave. The quena is diatonic tuned, basically, and although the shak is pentatonic tuned, the scale is actually not the same. So, all things considered, it is a more jumbled descision than it might first appear.

It is my view, that no embouchure flute is "easy". However, there are increasingly more difficult levels of skill required for various flutes.

If I were to give you a direction, at this point in time, I might have to say, look at Stephen de Ruby's EZ Anasazi, as a possible starting place. There, you have the option of playing without a difficult embouchure, and can concentrate on the actual playing of the flute. That is kind of like getting an Yuu, with the embouchure accessory, that eliminates the embouchure issue, on the Yuu, as well.

Another aspect of the question, is where you want this to lead you, over time, as the shak is of course, a long term investment in learning. The others tend to be more moderate learning curves.

I recently recommended the Amaru brand Quena for those interested in that style of flute, as an excellent precision made flute. While I like the quena, it does not speak to me within, in the same way as an NAF.

Then there is the xiao. While it is easier to play than the shak, it can also be quite meditative, and in fact can be played a lot like an NAF (not necessarily how it should be played, of course.) The xiao comes in various forms, to include root end, the same as shak.

In NAF, many makers are now starting to offer other scale options, as well. Mid-Eastern tunings are popular, diatonic tunings are fairly available, and so-on.

Where to begin is a hard recommendation to make, without a good deal of info about what you want to do, and where you might like to take your music.

I have been quite involved over the last 2 yrs. with learning to play transverse bamboo flute in a minor tuning. That has taken some time, as the scale had to be learned, and then learning to play through 3 octaves, has been challenging as well, as again, this is an embouchure flute.

So, perhaps there isn't an answer, but rather you might choose a convenient (in terms of getting a flute) starting point, expecting that some exploration of the options will need to occur, over time.

In terms of cost, the quena will be quite affordable, and indeed a good NAF can be affordable. A good xiao might be mid-range in cost, and a good shak will definitely be mid-range to high range in cost. Considering the economy, most players are price sensitive right now, and with good reason. A bansuri can vary from quite reasonable to mid range, for a nice one, depending on whether new or "aged well". A transverse bamboo, will vary a good bit, with quality, but I would say the range is affordable to upper mid range.

So.......I think you must ponder some of those decision aspects, and see where you might feel most comfortable, in terms of learning curve, cost, and availability of flutes. The diversity of possibilities is fairly extensive.

Jade, I wouldnt get a rim blown or transverse for my only flute. To me I cant get lost in the music as well as I can on a whistle type flute. Maybe when I get better on the rim blown {if I do} I wouldnt be thinking about it. If you have the money I would do what Rick said. Get the ez Anasazi from DERuby. Its more than twice as much than Eriks,, but You would have a keeper for life,,not that Eriks arent, I just am impressed by the DeRuby. Also it shorter than Eriks.

And , then give us a review

Greydog

Welcome to the Forum Jade.

Seems like the advise so far is much like your own thoughts, a bit all over the place. We all love our flutes and have our favorite styles and makers and to our advantage the options are plentiful. Take it all in and go with your gut.

That said I will offer my suggestions:

A "Quenasazi" from Geoffrey Ellis for a quality flute with great playability: http://www.earthtoneflutes.com/

-or-

A very inexpensive option would be a PVC model from "Anasazi Dreams" : http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=6322854

Welcome again and let us know what you decide.
Ed

Hello Jade, No advice from me, just wanted to welcome you to the forums and we are glad you joined us. Which ever Flute you wind up with I hope your Journey with it is Long and filled with much Beauty! Many Blessings...Robert

I'm afraid I can't really help. I am finally getting pretty good on my NAF's and I'm having a lot of fun with my bamboo transverse (thanks Webb!), and can finally make it sing fairly well.
But I have a beautiful Pueblo (anasazzi) and a PVC Mohave (I think... they're the 4 hole, right?).
Truth is I can barely get them to play. I can just find the tone note and lose it just as easily. And I know it's not the flutes... when I do finally hit the tone note , especially on the Pueblo, it's beautiful.
But those suckers are much harder, at least for me, than my transverse is turning out to be.

At least in public I'll just stick to NAF's for now...lol.

an update:

Everyone's being so helpful and welcoming I really appreciate it.
I've been looking at youtube and some of the sites/people mentioned and am slowly finding my way. So far I have learned:

1. WOW in terms of NAF... you can actually do quite a lot with an octave and a bit

2. flutes come in forests, it is just their nature - so much for my idea of 'just one'....lol....

3. I have ruled out the shakuhachi-yuu - for anyone who may be interested, it might be just the thing - it is an abs synthetic perfectly in tune 1.8 instrument acceptable for students and professional use, and it has an available ez-play adaptor (just put your mouth on and blow)... which for some would make it ideal for tootiling easily, and learning rim blown (cause it is without the adaptor), and exploring a ton of flute techniques, and also for flute heartplaying....
but the sound just doesn't do it for me... (relatively reasonable cost at around 150)
and I only looked at it as an entry into the world of rim blown anyway...

might have been different if I hadn't heard that anasazi rim blown first...

4. I have to put some thought into keys and scales to see what goes with what, cause I'd like to make some duets, trio's or quartets... so I need to pick my keys carefully

5. There are some lovely, high quality instruments out there... and I wish more makers would have the 'raw sound' mp3 without the reverb...

If anyone has more or further comments I appreciate it, I'll keep you posted as to my decision process...

Nice meeting everyone

I just wanted to add 1 (kind of important) point.

The finger reach on some of these flutes can be difficult or downright impossible for some people with small hands and/or short arms.

You should check the finger/arm reach on the flute of your choice before you commit your $$

Well I don't own any of the more expensive shak's so I can't tell you how these compares. In fact, I was hoping that somebody who does have a good quality shak would buy one of these and do a comparison. These shak's are a 20th the cost of some other shaks. Even if they're not perfect it might be a worthwhile first shak for someone who is not ready to committ the big bucks yets.

While I have played some low cost shaks, I have found them more limited in playability, than some higher priced shaks. The Yuu is the one exception to that. You can play anything on a Yuu.

I think you can also play most anything on the wooden shaks. A few nuances may be more difficult in wood.

In low cost bamboo, the time spent to tune and refine the voicing to get three full octaves, just isn't being devoted to the low cost flutes, as a rule. About the best price for a decent shak, is around $400. One difference in shaks, is the prices don't vary much on key, mostly on voicing.

Rim blowns:

Anasazi
Mojave
Xiao
Shakuhachi
Chi Ba
Ney
Kaval
Quena / Quenacho

There are a few others, but those are the primary ones.

Just pick and choose, what appeals to you.

Just curious: do you play Xiao, what is your experience? I think of buying one next time I'm in China.

Another curious question: what is Chi Ba, from which area?

Island Moon, 2 more cents from me,
{I had promised myself I would be a wallflower on this forum , but it hasnt worked out} sorry
What Titmouse said about finger stretch is something I forgot. I have big hands and the Mark Purtilk anasazi took a bit of getting used to. I could do it but wasnt used to that much stretch. But definately workable.

If your set on a rim blown, get a Purtil Anasazi or the Anasita. for 40 bucks you cant go wrong. I really dont like plastic instruments,,, but these play good. The plastic problem is just in my mind about it being unatural,, yada yada yada

But they play so nice.
and if your on a budget you could get one of these AND a NA style from Erik the flutemaker for a bout 100 bucks total.

Some people suggest buying more flute than you need to start with ,, and thats cool if you have the cash,, but most of its the player not the flute IMHO
Greydog

Yes, I have 3 xiao, one bamboo long version, one blackwood long version, and one root end bamboo version.

The Chi Ba, is the shakuhachi style mouthpiece, version of the xiao, which was the predecessor to the shakuhahchi. It is a Chinese flute, as well.

I totally agree with you, Greydog, and that is what I did to start.

But would also like to comment- if you think Mark's PVC's are a stretch just wait until you get a full size G# made by one of the Big Guys lol! One does adapt, however.
Kat

Thanks Rick. I did not know the Chi Ba, now I know where to start to do some research. I hope to be in China this autumn so I hope to get some time to be flute-hunting...

There is a source for the Chi Ba in Washington State, but it is not always available. They import in directly from the Chinese makers.

Thanks Rick. I suppose I could get one in Europe as well, but it is just so nice to be in the country and visit music shops and flute players

Sure.....if you are in the right place to find them.

Hey, Jade! How did you sneak by me without my noticing your arrival?! (I must be getting slow in my old age!)

Anyway, a belated WELCOME!

If you want an Anasazi in wood, go with Earth Tone. Ask for the wider bore. I think Geoffrey is still making them. I am 5'2" and have short arms and small hands. It is reachable. Now, I will admit that I have to play the third hole from the top with my pinkie instead of my ring finger, but it works just fine. Not that I can play the thing great or anything.

But with a little work, you can get a good sound out of it. Just relax and keep trying. It is a neat sound! Scott August told me that, when I get a note, keep playing it until you run out of air (not to the point of passing out or anything!) Just use a long breath. He says that helps to set the embouchre in your brain.

I liked your remark about a forest of flutes!!

You are probably going to want to get a NAF. They are very easy to play and it will be relaxing for you. When you get frustrated on your Anasazi or other flute, pick up your NAF and relax!

Oops! I talked your ears (or eyes) off! SEE! That's what you get for sneaking by me!!

All this wisdom is just great. I'm still in the puttering around the internet phase and scouting the flutes....lol....
alll this abundance!

I will say that Eric's website impressed me, and set the hook...lol...
but I would have to be putting in a multi-flute order to make his high shipping charges worth it... for example, to my location the cost of shipping the anasazi by itself was $38.00, so for $142 I could befriend a natural bamboo easy anasazi or for under $200 I could befriend an earth tone of a more durable nature.... at this point, the more durable material is more compelling....

I've played other woodwinds before, so I don't expect to play much more than... air...
at the beginning...

That doesn't do much for my 'something to play easily now' idea, though....
So the notion I'm sitting on (to see if it hatches) is getting an earth tone and seeing
how quickly we bond... if I can get some sound now and then I will be 'playing easily'....
I am reminding myself I invited a new heart experience into my life, which attracted the experience of hearing the anasazi... and the lesson of 'invitation' is acceptance and trust

Well,gang, I'll keep you posted...

Jade


PS where does the word "anasazi" come from? who called the disappeared ancient ones that?

I'm curious, because in the Turkish language:
'ana' means mother/protector
- 'saz' means 'reed' (and is also the name of a stringed instrument that looks like a small lute or oud but has its own sound)

and 'i' is the suffix they put when they make two words mean 1 thing.... for example,
in English we have 'tooth' and 'brush' and we make 'toothbrush', but if these were Turkish words we would have to say 'tooth brushi'

So 'anasazi' means 'mother reed'.....

Anasazi is actually a Dine' word (Navajo), as I understand it. I have my struggles with Tsalagi (Cherokee), so I am not attempting to learn much Dine'.

That is the same issue as "Cherokee" which is actually a Creek word to describe the Tsalagi people.

It seems that much of the time, peoples became known by words which didn't originate in their own language.

You have an interesting point there Rick. I have noticed that and wondered about it. Even the Saami are commonly known as "Laps" - a non-Saami word. It strucks me now that even the name English for the people in England is of foreign origin, firstly used by missionaries from the Roman empire to describe the tribes they met during their missionary journey. (for those who do not know it, the word comes from latin Angelii, which means angels - so feel flattered all you English people here )

Sorry - this is off-topic

Greetings everyone...
there is so much info out there, and folks here are so kind to share their sound files...
everyone's input and suggestions really helped me come to a decision I'm comfotable with, so thank you so much....

Anyway, I spoke to Geoffrey on the phone a couple of times...he's really easy to talk to and very patient.... and my timing was great....so
he had something in stock with my name on it and I don't have to wait in the custom order line... and am still getting something custom beautiful.... It is a quenasazi in b out of quina wood...I will post a picture when it comes... a sound file will have to wait until I can get something more than air

The b quenasazi is 25 inches long. My clarinet is 23.5 inches, so it seems a comfortable place to start. The b flat quenasazi is 27 inches long, which doesn't seem too bad either. I did give some thought to going for the b flat because my clarinet is also b flat. But, Geoffrey says he is also going to come out with some exotic scales so I'll probably go for one of those in the longer size/deeper key when I'm used to the feel....
said she confidently..... and variety is always good for neuroplasticity.... anyone been watching PBS lately? .... oh yes, planning next purchase while current purchase in progress ...and justifying it.... is definitely a sign of advancing flutitis infection...
(especially considering I've never actually played a flute before....)

I liked the idea of it being easier than a traditional rim blown but still having the octaves available, and having a sound quality I resonate with

Now I have some time to fantasize about what I can do with it when I can play it.....
before the reality of the learning curve hits when it arrives....

That should actually be a stronger player than the regular Anasazi, as you can get a little more volume with the notched mouthpiece, in my experience.

First one in that style I tried, was by Amos of Fallen Branch group, and it played nicely into the third octave. I then got to try one by Aluaki, in bamboo, and it played nicely as well, but it was a lefty fingering, so I wasn't able to really stretch it's capability, as I play righty.

Both of those, though, played with more volume than G's regular Anasazi does.