I've noticed that some NAF sellers, and I believe some recording liner notes, negelect to say that the key is a "minor" key. For example, someone will say that they are selling a flute in the key of G. Yet is actually a Gm. Same thing on a few CDs. Can someone explain why the "minor" term is sometimes dropped off or assumed? I know that people so sell NAFs that are in the major key and not the minor.

I don't know any music theory, but it sure makes things confusing. Any help in understanding this would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I noticed that too. Not knowing anything about NAF before, it took me some time to discover that my first flute was a minor key. I suppose it's just that most people dealing with NAF understand that it is so. But I agree, it would be more correct and less confusing for new people to designate the key correctly.

i'm sure someone can explain this better... the way the NAF standard has evolved is to be tuned in a pentatonic minor scale (pentatonic means 5, so a 5 note scale based on a minor scale) uncovering the holes in a somewhat linear pattern. i think it is also described as minor to denote that it is not a truly chromatic (including every half step) instrument. now there are at least 2 ways that i know of to get a major scale out of the NAF and some of the chromatic tones inbetween. so in it's basic, simplest form it is a "minor" instrument and that's why it is assumed to be in the minor key of whatever the lowest note is. why the minor designation is dropped when describing it is based on that assumption, laziness, or perhaps just a shorthand when talking about them.

The minor is just the popular standard for NAF now days. Major keys or more specialty flutes.
If you really want to get picky but correct then people should use a small g for a g minor and a capitol G for a G major. This is how it is done on sheet music and is the proper way of identifying the two. This would be even more confusing for most though.
If you go to my site though, on the home page, I explain I do my flutes in both minor and major tunings. Most people do not know this but none of us are really doing a pentatonic scale. We are really doing a hexatonic tuning, if you want to get down to brass tax. A four hole flute would be pentatonic or (5 notes). You see, it could be a lot more confusing if everyone was gong by the book. Well enough for today. :-)

Hi Ed,

Let me complicate this a bit more. What does a diatonic tuned flute sound like? Is it similar in sound to the 10 hole diatonic harmonica? I've seen where some performers list the flute used for a song as "diatonic" and it's made me wonder...

Thanks in advance for any light you can shine my way.

Clear Notes,

To make this very simple.... A diatonic is your do, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti, do scale. I make my Diatonic flutes with seven holes so that the tuning is accurate. The seventh hole is on the back and is covered with your thumb.

Ed,

Thanks that helps a bit.
Can you say anything more about the differences with the diatonic flute?

By the way I bought a hard case from you last year. Love it!

Dan

Thanks for the reply Ed but now I'm really confused . I thought the do, re, me, fa, etc., was the chromatic scale... (be gentle, I'm a tenderfoot at this! )

Thanks again.

Clear Notes,

It is confusing, I agree, but the diatonic scale is the scale having 7 tones - the do-re-mi etc or the c,d,e,f,g,a,b.
The chromatic scale has 12 tones within the octave and has all the half-tones (all the black and white keys on the piano).
Gerard

There is a lot to learn about music and this question could be answered varies ways but to make it easy here is what I came up with.....
The chromatic tuning includes all the semitones of the octave where the diatonic involves only seven of those notes. I hope this helps clear things up a little.

Here is some confusing technical things to show just how deep music can go.....

In the modes of the Major Scale - The Mixoydian Mode, you have the following.....

ionian
dorian
phrygian
lydian
mixollydian
aolian
locrian

I am mentioning this because most people do not have any idea just how involved music can be. To get into these would require one to go school for a while. I went to school for music years ago but have forgotten a lot of these scales. It wasn't fun trying to learn all of the scales out there. It is very difficult. Well, at least for me. :-)

Dan, glad the case is working out for you. :-)

These are my own ideas but I the way I feel about it is diatonic is for the older style music. Classical if you were.
Amazing Grace for example is very easily played on a diatonic flute. Yes, fingering can be manipulated so that it can be played on a pentatonic also but it is much easier on a diatonic. The diatonic NAF (to me) has fewer notes even though it has more holes. It was really meant to play just the 8 notes to include the octave but yes it can play more than 8 notes. Don't really know what else to say except the different scales of instruments just give you different outlooks and avenues of music. These scales just add to the exploration of an instrument. :-)

Got it Gerard (my light bulb went on!) It's like the difference between a diatonic and chromatic harmonica (I knew that but just needed somone to tell me it again - gosh I hate getting old!) Thanks much for the info!

Clear Notes,

Thanks Ed, I've got it now.

Wow, it looks like I need to learn a new language too!

I may contact you in the near future, as I'm very intrigued by the thought of playing a diatonic flute... I suspect they are a bit more of an investment due to a bit extra work required to creat one?

Clear Notes,

Cool! I look forward to talking with you some day.
Actually, they are the same prices as the pentatonic.
Although, there is something new in the works that I am going to be anouncing in a few days. Can't say anymore about it just yet but I will say that they are the first of there kind, as for as I know anyway. :-)

HINT:.....
Keep an eye on my In Stock Gallery! ;-)

Great on the price Ed.

No fair on the announcement and keeping an eye on your "In Stock Gallery". I leave on vacation tomorrow morning for two weeks out West and I suspect my computer access is going to be severly curtailed! (as in cut-off )

I'll be in touch.

Best Wishes & Clear Notes,

I just wanted to add a bit about "modes" that might be helpful to anyone wanting to probe further. A "scale" is just a division of the notes into "intervals." The chromatic scale is divided into 12 intervals (each called a "semitone"). On a piano, that would be all the white and black keys between, say a "C" and the "C" an octave above it. The modes Ed listed are ways of breaking up the same octave into seven intervals spaced as evenly as possible on average - most of the steps will be full tones apart, but a couple single-semitone steps will be included in order to squeeze seven intervals into the octave. So, if you start on C and play only the white keys up to the next C, you would have played the Ionian mode. This is also known as the "modern Major" scale, the "do-re-mi" scale, or what is generally accepted as the "diatonic" scale. Now if you move up one white key to the D and play the white keys from D to D, the spacing of the intervals is a little different so the sound is different a well. In this case, you would have played the Dorian mode. Of all seven white keys between C and the B above it, each one will start a different mode (still all white keys) as Ed listed. By the way, the white-key scale that starts on A is the Aolian mode, which is also the "modern natural minor" scale.

Each one of these modes can be played in any key by starting on the key note and playing the same pattern of intervals using the black keys when needed.

The pentatonic modes are very similar, except they place five intervals across the octave. There are many types of pentatonic modes, but the ones we use mostly with the NAF are steps that are either two or three semitones, and they, too are spaced as evenly as possible - and the black piano keys are set up this way. If you start at D# (same as E-flat) and play the octave on the black keys, you'll play five notes (plus the octave). This particular scale is the "Mode 1" pentatonic mode. In terms of semitones, it has a pattern of

3-2-2-3-2

Moving up to the next black key (F#), the sequence creates Mode 2, and so on - each has a different sound. There are five combinations called mode 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 (not TOO creative…). Of the five, modes 1 and 4 have notes that correspond to notes found in the modern natural minor (Aolean) mode, and happen to be the most popular for the NAF. Mode 2 and 5 flutes are gaining popularity, and the notes from these modes correspond to notes found in the modern Major (Ionian) mode. Mode 3 is also a minor mode, but I don’t know of anyone using it in the NAF.

The pictures posted here might help show the ideas graphically. Hope it’s useful to some folks…

Mike

Wow, Mike! Thanks! That helps a LOT!

Thanks Mike,
Those charts are very good, can use them to explain for others.
Those things are rather confusing. After buying my firts flute (F#) I unedrstood rather soon that it was meant f# minor. But it has taken me many months to understand that this minor was not the common minor scale in Western music (i.e., the aeolian) but that the dorian is the closest (as long as we talk about mode 1). I have wondered quite some time why the music written in Nakai Tab has 4 sharps as he states this is the notation for a F# flute - and the natural minor scale for F# does not have 4 sharps. In the end I got it - the dorian F# scale has 4 sharps.
Not so difficult if you know, but it was explained nowhere in a clear way.

Gerard

Mike,

I almost get it.
Could you give an example, say for a NAF in the key of G (eally Gm), and say which noted on the Gm NAF correspond to the modes shown?

Thanks,

Dan

Dan,

Try this. The chart is aligned to G, so you can see the noted for each minor and major mode. Note that a 5-hole NAF is usually mode 1, and the extra hole of a six-hole flute gives you the extra note needed for mode 4. For any other key, just print the chart and cut out the mode boxes and piano keys, then slide the mode box along the keys so the first note aligns with the key.

Mike

Oh, cool! Thanks, Mike!

Another thing that some people try to do is use a NA flute to play something that's in a major key - but still trying to use the lowest note as home.

Quick tip on this - the second hole from the bottom is the beginning of the relative major scale for the minor key your flute is in.

Now in English :

For example, A is the relative minor of the C major scale. The second note in our standard minor pentatonic tuning is 1.5 steps. There are 1.5 steps between A and C.

So what this means is that if you have a flute in A (minor of course), then you can somewhat easily finger a C major scale by starting at the second hole. There's still some cross fingering, but it's easier than trying to make an A minor flute play the A major scale.

I say all of this to help you plan ahead. If you want to play with a guitar, Emin and Gmaj are popular keys. If you get an E minor flute, you can play both in that key, as well as G, which is the relative major.

Maybe someone will get some use out of that.

Jason

Somebody needs to write one of those "books for dummies" on scales and fingerings. Then I might get it.

Hi Rick,

You've probably seen this before, and I'm not sure if it will be much help, but I've found it useful:

Scales at FluteTree

Jason

Jason,

That was an easy help for me, as I'm not much into theory but that was simple enough and something I wasn't aware of.

Thanks.

Yes, but since I have also found a number of variances there, I have become more and more of the opinion that you must examine each particular flute to determine what is, in fact, correct.