I guess since asking here is more enjoyable than doing my homework--

A friend of mine was recently making light of the fact (I think) that tobacco products are tax free on Native American lands. I informed him that tobacco is indeed considered sacred to some Native American traditions. I am not sure he believed me. I also realized how scarce my own knowledge on this subject is. Does anyone here, either by direct experience or indirectly, know more about this?

OBLIGATORY DISCLAIMER: This post is in no way meant to encourage the use of tobacco. But I am a bit curious.

Namaste,

Jim

i think it more of a government thing , most reservations are not under state law, on the reservation itself, they are governed by Elders and such ,with intervention by the Government. downside is this also makes for a higher penalty for crimes committed----------- crimes are considered federal jurisdiction and subject to federal courts, it gets more complicated than that, its kind of a messed up deal ------------ i used to be a federal officer with the dept of corrections

hey Jim... if i'm reading your post right you're asking if and why tobacco is sacred to Native Americans.. i posed the why question recently to one of the last remaining Cherokee shamans and he couldn't give me an answer why other than it had always been that way. if there are any answers or legends i'd like to hear them myself.

While I do not begin to know all of the aspects of tobacco in Native culture, there are several aspects to tobacco, that matter.

First, the smoke is thought to be cleansing, for serious thought and discussion.

Second, the act of smoking is political, with the goal of the politics, to be peaceful negotiation, and understanding.

Third, in certain places, tobacco is not commonly found, so it was considered a valuable trade item, to others.

Last, it has been traditional for many centuries, and traditions die hard, even if they can kill you.

Dock Green Silverhawk used Tobacco in his invocation ceremony this weekend at Rhythms. I wish I had video'd it, he spoke as he blew the tobacco to each of the 4 corners. It matched almost exactly word for word what you just discribed.

Think it would be hard to truly understand tobacco without understanding the Ways of some Native folks.
I'm certainly not the one to elaborate on it's use but will tell of a cool way many had and still use tobacco.
Often in prayer some tobacco would be offered, the thinking being if your going to ask for something maybe something should be offered back or as a way of giving thanks.
Maybe on a walk you find a rock, feather, stick or something you pick up to keep, you might offer a pinch of tobacco as thanks or good trade.
Again, tobacco was used in some of the most serious situations by some Native American People, used not abused. The abuse and addiction came after the westerners showed up.
Kuz

as i recall it appears to be for sharing the same spirit, a brotherhood type of moment, if you have ever seen it done after they blow out the smoke, the smoke is mixed in the air and they fan it back to their noses, and it is in a closed room or tent----- but this is an opinion on my part
now they also have a reversal of this too, it is a "sweat lodge" they go into a room or tent build a low key smolder fire and sweat out bad "things" kind of like a detox , it would appear to have the same effects as a steam room---------- they were Allowed to do this in the correctional facility i worked at

What about the drug aspects of tobacco? It has a powerful effect on people, most especially if they are not habitual users. Whatever tobacco's significance is today, I have to think that its powerful drug related qualities are what first made it significant. If it did not have these qualities, why then would it be valued over any other plant that could be dried, ignited, and smoked?

I don't know much about native herbs, but freckledopshie has a good question. My impression after hearing about use of tobacco from a Native American friend of mine and field trips with a botanist is that the tobacco used in ritual and cleansing is different than the universally-available manufactured tobacco produced by companies, either being a different variety or a precursor. You can find it wild in the desert SW if you know what you're looking for. It may be found sold legally in the herbal section of a well-stocked traditional trading post. There are some who claim that it does alter the the psychological experience of the user more noticably, but I don't know if any controlled comparisons have been made to manufactured tobacco in this area. Please correct me if I'm not accurate about this.

Can't answer that, as I have not had any exposure to a difference between native used tobacco, and non-native.

On the other hand, we likely have all heard of Peyote, as a "religious use" drug.

Wikipedia has an interesting article about this under the search term "history of tobacco", but it's pretty generalized.

I can tell you that the real stuff is a much more pleasant product than what you buy, although it's harder to keep lit since it has no chemical additives. I grew some (burley variety) in my garden one year. Wow! Powerful flavor and very enjoyable, even though I'm not a smoker. The plants were over 6 feet tall with pink trumpet-shaped flowers and huge sticky leaves that ripen from the bottom of the plant then upward. They lighten in color when they ripen.

Also grew an Iranian strain (Sherazi). It was very strong and pungent...a real mundungus! It was a much smaller plant with an almost flowery/jasmine flavor. I had fewer insect problems that year. Nicotine is a powerful neurotoxin to insects. Soak some of the tobacco leaves in water, and spray that for insect control. It really works.

The stuff is easy to grow and seeds are readily available from catalog/internet companies. For example: http://www.thetobaccoseed.com/

I may try it again next spring. If any of ya'll do, let me know how you fared.

Keith

As widely as it is grown in NC, I never paid that much attention to the actual growing and harvesting of the plants. The tobacco farmers have special drying barns where they dry the tobacco leaves, though.

"On the other hand......" ........so, does that mean you have had exposure?

Many peoples throughout the world have used and continue to use various substances. Some are eaten. Some are drunk. Some are inhaled. Some find their way into the body in other ways. And not only plants and plant products but sometimes animals. For instance, somewhere in South America there is a small tribe that snorts ground up insects. Apparently the high is quite profound.

People have always done this and always will.

Sadly......yes. I know you are right, but that still doesn't make me too happy about drug use.

No, I am aware of peyote, but I have not been exposed to it. I ascribe to some things about Native culture, but that isn't one of them........religious or not. (Actually, I am not at all "religious", but I do have a "spiritual" side.)

Haven't smoked either, for over 30 yrs. although I was one of the young and foolish, at one time.

Actually don't care for the smudging process, because I can't stand the smoke odor. Hate incense, also. Guess I am partly just too old to want to be around smoke of any kind.

IMHO, drug use, in and of itself, is not something to be sad about. It is part of being human on this planet. What is sad is when drugs are used to excess and one's experience of life is diminished in one way or another. Like anything, drugs can be a positive part of one's life or a negative part. And, as with all things, there are positives and negatives to consider.

Many of the "ornamental tobaccos" are closer in form to the wild stuff than the varieties that are grown commercially. They can also be a lot stronger in nicotine content...to the point that some might be called hallucinogenic. Can't see how that could ever compare to the effects of peyote, however. Seeds for the nicotiana, or "ornamental" varieties are available at most garden shops. I've grown them, and they are pretty little things. They're an even more potent smoke than the Iranian Shirazi tobacco mentioned in another post in this thread.

Nicotiana is a powerful strain of plants. Some subspecies are more powerful than others. All are in the nightshade family, along with tomatoes, chile peppers, eggplants, potatoes, and deadly nightshade (belladonna). As we say here in South Texas, "Watchale with that stuff, ya'll!"

Keith

Medical use drugs are a necessary evil, which I tolerate, but minimize, to whatever extent possible.

I have seen the Nicotiana plants in the nursery, and seems as though I had a hanging basket of them one year, but I never associated them with tobacco.

I can attest to the fact that one should never burn poison ivy or poison oak, however. Not good to breathe any such smoke from those guys.

You'd probably need a Benadryl inhaler!

I am no expert either, but will share what was told me by a Native American Elder at a prayer Ceremony I attended.
Tobacco, being a sacred plant, was/is used in prayer and in showing thanks. In Prayer, used in a pipe, it is believed the smoke from the pipe will carry your prayers to the Creator. It is also used in prayer in it's raw form, offered to the 4 directions.
In thanks, it is used (as was stated above), as a "trade" if you are harvesting from a plant or find a feather, etc., and before harvest. Also used as thanks when given to an Elder or someone as a sign of respect when seeking advise, or for something they may have done.
Beth

You'd probably need a Benadryl inhaler!

JJ- good you didn't vid it...the sacred pipe does not want to be vidid.
Fronded upon by many tribes.

Tobacco was a sacred gift to the first peoples, too bad it has been so abused.
In its raw form, there are many uses and healing properties.

I am not of the opinion that tobacco is any more or less sacred than anything else. Each thing has it's use/purpose. Even in the context of using it as an offering or in the Pipe it is about intention. When one doesn't have tobacco to offer money or candy or song or anything you have will work just fine if you intend it to.
If we want to offer something to show our respect for a person yes tobacco is often used but sweetgrass or cedar or muskrat root or bear root works well also. Again it is about showing respect and honoring the person or act.

If I were forced to draw a line between drug and sacred plant, intention is where it would be drawn. Anything can be misused and abused consequently causing harm.

Thank you Hawk,
I had been told before that it's your intention that makes all the difference..... sometimes we just need to be reminded about that.....
Blessings,
Beth

Wish i knew that years ago!
I'd been taught, if not tobacco, a hair from your head would do.
About plucked myself bald from too many walks without my tobacco pouch
Kuz

The tendency of Western culture is to take everything to its extreme. Mass produced cigarettes (coffin nails!) vs natural forms of tobacco may be yet another example of this.

My knowledge of Native American culture is a little less abysmal after reading this great thread.
I'm guessing tobacco's effect on the spirit took precedence over health concerns in traditional native cultures.

Also, I seriously doubt that tobacco was used, back then, with the abandon that it is used by most smokers today. It is one thing to use tobacco in ceremonies. It is another thing to smoke regularly every day.

Back when I was a pipe smoker, I experienced a couple varieties (legal) that produced this effect. In general, pipe smoking is very calming, and the "old guys" around the table at the shop where I hung out sometimes used to say that if national leaders all smoked pipes the world's political problems would be solved.

actually i still smoke a pipe now and then when it nice and cool , i love the smell----------i am a Borkum riff man myself

Help!......Drug users on this forum!

LOL, When the voices tell you to stop smoking, it's best to listen. Especially if the voice is your cardiologist.

No hallucinations--just the contemplative relaxation Paul and Cavefish describe.

Sold all my pipes to pay for my new flute addiction ... and glad I did.

actually i think if we all had a Sit down and smoked a pipe , I think we would share a moment on earth together and it would be enjoyable---- Maybe thats all it was, all this stuff we talked about ,assumptions and such, maybe it was so simple , ------------- as to share a moment on this world , because we dont really know when our appointed time is to leave

maybe that is why in the old days, when war was so inevitable and unknown, ------------their Moment together was so Valued
I know if there was a WAY we could share , ALL of us together, in this common bond , it would be memorable to times to come

anyway

Brother Cavefish it felt really nice to read your words here! Thank you!

thanks Hawk, i i actually felt good writing it, i have been thinking alot about the short times we have on this earth , and it saddens me to SEE such evil and hate promote itself------------ life is a Gift that not many share, anyway these little moments and the ones we share we should make them as good as we can despite our faults and errors , , thanks again

Brother Cavefish, that is heartwarming and so true.

Sophie, thanks for that! I have read the advice that it is erroneous to use the tradition and spiritual element of tobacco to justify the habitual use of cigarette smoking. This makes sense to me, and also ties in to Hawk's statement about intention. There's quite a difference between one's intention with tobacco for ceremonial and spiritual use versus addiction to cigarettes. It transforms a spiritually elevating experience into a health-threatening one.

I feel obligated to say it: Cigarette smoking is very bad for your health, in so many ways. For the sake of your well-being and for the sake of your loved ones, please quit! There are many state-supported programs to help!

That being said, I've started growing nicotiana rustica "Mohawk ceremonial tobacco" this year. It's a beautiful plant with broad leaves and clusters of small yellow flowers.

Jefferson

Interesting that someone is calling Mapacho (rustica) "Mohawk tobacco". I hadn't heard if it's use by these folks...
Kuz

Couldn't tell you. That's what the seed companies are labeling it. I should ask someone who's Mohawk!

Jefferson

Tobacco is a medicinal plant. Most people today do not understand that because there is very little awareness about the plant they are using. I have been in several tobacco ceremonies and will share what I have learned..

Many natives consider it to be the most sacred plant...It is used for prayer, can be used as an offering as well. It is common to blow the smoke in the directions, over your body, to give thanks, cleanse... When you smoke, it helps you to open the throat, and to speak more clearly from the heart. It is all about intention. So when I smoke by myself or with people, you set an intention for it. The person who is holding the pipe is the one who speaks. As they inhale and begin speaking, pure things just begin flowing out of the person's mouth. Eventually they are done, and it is the next person's turn to set an intention and speak. I have found that tobacco can be very therapeutic in helping to express ones self. Tobacco is also great at bringing things to the surface, which have been repressed by the person.

Smoking it is not the only way either. There are some peoples that mix it with other plants and blow it up your nose, your nose might be runny for a while, but it is a tremendously cleansing experience.

Good point, it is important to recognize the use of Tobacco for ceremonial use and habitual smoking.

No comparison could or should be made between traditional ceremonial use of tobacco and the corporate tobacco industry. Modern cigarettes are nothing more than a highly effective Nicotine delivery device. They are highly addictive and a truely cruel and destructive product that robs people of thier health and wealth in the name of corporate profits.

There is no positive aspect to cigarette smoking, only broken families, destroyed lives and spiraling health care costs from the destructive effects.

This year, I attended the funeral of an aunt and uncle who passed away 6 months from each other. Cause of death, cancer from smoking. They were both in there 50's and left behind two adult kids and grandkids who will not know their grandparents because they are gone. I know that some of you all smoke and it's your business. But, there are those that love you and wish to see you live longer.

dd

My dad died of lung cancer at age 60 ... never met my wife or son.

Before I left the Native Rhythms festival grounds I was gifted and honored with a small bag of tobacco that came from a very large stash of tobacco that over a period of many years had been gifted to one of our very dear flute maker friends. Many hands and many hearts have touched that tobacco.

Some folks may not think that my "ceremonial tobacco" actions were traditionally appropriate but, . . . I pinched off a piece of the bitter sweet smelling tobacco and offered it to Mother Earth with words of great thanks and vast appreciation for the cow and the rubber tree that gave me almost a decade of excellent usage with an extremely comfortable and greatly loved pair of leather clogs that had regretfully given up the ghost.

Sheesh, some time ago I submitted a flutes vs shoes consumer analogy in a post, and here I am mentioning shoes again!

Otherwise and personally, the gifting/offering of tobacco was a comforting gesture of thanks!

A few years back, I had the honor of playing the NAF at the rememberence service of a local NA educator. At the end of service, I was honored by the family (as were others) with a small gift basket and among the items inside was a gift of tobacco. I was honored to have been there and honored to have received the tobacco and other gifts.

When praying with the sacred pipe, the smoke gives form to words and are carried to Creator. That is the only time it is use traditionally

Native Americans of past also used tobacco regularly in cooking. The green leaves are loaded with nutrients and very good when used in cooking. However, it's when the product is dried, blended with loads of nasty chemicals like the major tobacco companies do to it that it becomes a poison. If you look for recipes on cooking with tobacco you might be surprised at what comes up. I warn you though that it's a hit and miss. The drying process for tobacco leaves is also referred to as cooking because the traditional way, I believe, was to set the leaves in a hot barn "to cook" for five days to a week. Used as an herb in food dishes tobacco becomes a yummy product adding interesting flavor and nutrition to stews, muffins and a whole host of other dishes.

Ok, I think I'm gonna buy me a few tobacco plants to grow on my patio in the spring!

Mark I wonder if you might suggest or post some links. I find this idea of cooking with tobacco interesting. Never heard of Native peoples using it this way. I quickly searched the net and saw a few sites where cooking with tobacco was mentioned but it was either a "new" experimental flavorant or a "what do you think this would be like" idea.

Hawk,

Give me a few days to find the right links. My great-grandmother, who was Arapahoe and Creek used to cook with tobacco. That's when I first learned about it. She told me that her Mom had taught her to use this sacred herb and she was use it in stews, biscuits and even acorn pancakes. I wish I knew variety of tobacco she used. There are a few sites that sell heirloom seeds and I think I'll buy a few and grown them in my apartment. Most are non-flowering variety and don't require pollination so that will grow successfully in a home.

Anyway, give me a bit of time to scour the net. This requires using a few more search engines beyond google because googles indexes are limited.

Interesting. I would consider "my great-grandmother used it" to be a more reliable source than anything that popped up in a search engine. Native Seeds Search carries some heirloom tobacco varieties, but their stock is focused more on the southwest and Mexico. Not really Arapahoe or Creek country. Might be worth checking out, though:

Native Seeds Search tobacco listings

Tobacco biscuits. Hmmm... Maybe I need to reconfigure the garden.

Peace,
Coatlique