My stepdaughter was a powwow dancer.

It was one of the few positive experiences that she had growing up. She grew up with her father, rather than with her mother and I. The only saving grace was that her father's stepfather cared very deeply about her and tried to help her as much as he could. Through Wayne, Morganna found a loving, supportive community and ultimately was asked to serve as head woman dancer at a few local powwows. When Morganna came to live with us, as soon as she could choose (and felt safe in doing so) she wanted us to share in this part of her life.

I however, felt very ambivalent about bringing my NAFs to a powwow. Not because I don't have confidence as a player, but because I'm not, never have been, never gonna be, and, frankly, never wanna be an Indian.

Of course, it's not about me. This is something that's important to Morganna, and that makes it important to me. So we go to a powwow in Salem, WV. It's a lot of fun, and I do bring my flutes, and I get a lot of positive reinforcement, which is always good.

One evening, I'm sitting out by the parking lot, tweedling away, and this tall, blonde guy dressed in quasi-Native dress who, from his talk, is deeply into the 'spirichul' aspect of Native culture. He says to me, "Wow, man, that's really beautiful playing. You really honor your ancestors."

My mouth dropped open, and I had a bit of a flashback.

When Morganna was about 10, she said to me, after listening to me play, "Uncle Zak, you must have Indian blood, you play so pretty." I had to inform her that was not just unlikely, but impossible; my family, on both sides, are Eastern European Jews who emigrated to the US at the opening of the twentieth century. That didn't matter to her. "You must have it somehow," she insisted. "You play like an Indian." She was ten, so I just said, "Thank you, honey," and left it at that.

I return to the present moment, sitting at the edge of a parking lot, talking to a white guy in dyed feathers and microsuede. I really wished that I knew how to play, "Hava Nagila." At least it would have been honest. But I said, "Thank you very much," and left it at that.

Up until very recently, I felt that I didn't quite have the right to 'own' the NAF as a central part of my self. After all, it belongs to the Indians, and I'm not an Indian, and, well, haven't the American tribes had enough taken from them already?

(This brings us to a side point. Since, as I expect most of us know, Native tribes are not all the same, and aren't interchangeable, exactly which tribe owns the flute? Does the descendant of a tribe which did not have flutes as part of its heritage have any less 'right' to play the NAF than, say, a Lakota? Or any more right to determine the proper form and usage of the NAF than a non-Native, despite the fact that neither individual has ancestors who so much as touched a siyotanka?)

One of our members, Hawk I beleve, wisely observed that different people have different relationships with the NAF, and that these different relationships can sometimes cause pain, especially to Indians, for whom the constant struggle with appropriation and oppression have a particularly poignant and powerful resonance. When we feel that much has been taken from us, we often cling ever tighter to anything and everything left.

The Native-ness, if you will, of the NAF is a hard thing. It gives it history, it gives it a basis of community which extends beyond mere commonality of interest, and it gives an almost magical aura to the flute. All of these things can be good things, but there can be too much of a good thing.

Personally, I am sick to death of the all-too-often faux Native American trappings that get hung on what is, ultimately, nothing but a hollowed out stick. Worse are the New Age overlays, sometimes also dressed in their finest feathers and leathers, but just as regularly clothed in the purple and nag champa of your local crystal emporium.

In this, I know that most Indians (at least the ones I've spoken to) are in agreement with me. I have a deep and abiding loathing of cultural appropriation.

So, as a non-Native, am I culturally appropriating the NAF? Is it better if I don't play Indian music, or is that even more of an insult to the Indian nations?




In 1993, there was a declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality. I first heard about it in '94, not long after receiving my first flute. I think it was these clauses that struck me:

WHEREAS for too long we have suffered the unspeakable indignity of having our most precious Lakota ceremonies and spiritual practices desecrated, mocked and abused by non-Indian "wannabes," hucksters, cultists, commercial profiteers and self-styled "New Age shamans" and their followers; and

WHEREAS with horror and outrage we see this disgraceful expropriation of our sacred Lakota traditions has reached epidemic proportions in urban areas throughout the country[....]

As a result, I would not play in public, nor would I even really talk much about the NAF; it just became a very personal thing. Looking back at the document, which I haven't read in many, many years, it's clearly more directed towards the pseudo-sundance, "plastic shaman" types then flutists. But playing the NAF is spiritual for me (sometimes) and the same is true of many others.

Sometimes, we are guilty of, "exploit[ing] the spiritual traditions of...Lakota people by imitating [their] ceremonial ways and by mixing such imitation rituals with non-Indian occult practices in an offensive and harmful pseudo-religious hodgepodge...." (We'll ignore for now the tremendous effect that Christianity has had on Native Americans, as well as how many of them have embraced it whole-heartedly and deeply -- despite the unavoidable, egregious historical treatment of Natives by good God-fearing Christians.)

In 2001, I started writing and recording my own NAF music, but I still wouldn't play out; too much ambivalence remained. But now, I play where and when I want to. I used to make a point to say, "I am not a Native American." I don't even do that anymore. I don't think it matters.

You could sum up all of the forgoing in one simple question: Who owns the wind?

Not me. Not you. Not the Lakota, or the Cherokee. The wind doesn't care if you have a tribal card in your pocket or a cross at your throat or a pentacle tattoo'd to your upper arm. When one brings the flute to one's lips, or the chisel to a block of wood, all that matters is the breath. All that matters is that the breath is formed into something which forms a bridge of emotion between the creator and those who experience the creation, whether it's a song or a flute. Anything and everything else is a distraction.

That doesn't mean the heritage and history of the NAF are not important. At this stage, they still are. For other instruments, with other histories, it's different; you don't hear about Middle Easterners clamouring for Americans to stop playing guitar because the guitar is the direct descendant of the oud, do you? Of course, one might argue that the guitar has changed far more than the NAF from its original state. Has it?

Did all historical NAFs play mode 1/mode 4 minor pentatonic? Were they all concert tuned? Were they made of exotic woods? Could they play almost a minor third into the second octave? What about drones or diatonic scales or Plains vs. Woodland....?

This was forcibly brought home for me recently when I finally got a chance to at least start watching Toubat. Dr. Payne said something to the effect that, if you can think of a musical scale, there's a tribal flute out there that plays it. The 5/6 hole minor pentatonic flute we all know and love was, in large part, standardized in scale and layout by Michael Graham Allen.

The facts as I seem them are simple: While, for the past thirty years or so, the most well acclaimed players have been Native, many, if not most, of the best makers have been non-Native. Some might look at that and see that the non-Natives have appropriated the NAF for their own purposes, ignoring the equally valid observation that many of those advancements have been at the behest of Native players, most notably Nakai, early on. So perhaps it's not an appropriation, but a partnership.




No one owns the wind. No one.

(Sorry if that seemed to end abruptly. My 2 year old woke up, and she's HUNGRY!)

Zak, I do hope that you will compose a song by that name.
Thank you for sharing.

Peace, Marsha

YOU own your breath (and fingers). CREATOR owns the wind.

dusty

I too went through a period of "guilt" as it were being a "white" man playing the "Native" flute. Picking up the Native flute inspired me to do some personal research into native americans in general, and what I discovered left me very sad and in some cases sick. While this did not keep me from playing the NAF, it defintely left me wondering if I should perform for money on them. While there are still times that I am unsure of the best thing to do, and while I still usually won't perform at say a Pow wow, the turning point for me ironically also came from a video, in this case "Songkeepers". On this video Hawk Littlejohn is quoted as saying

"If I'm honest in the quietness of my mind, It is nice that the conquerer who tried to eliminate us in every way, and move us aside for their sort of society and their beliefs, look at us for the one time, and pick up something from our culture, like the flute, and make it a part of their lives."

Now I also think that the issue has more to do with how one presents oneself and their flute playing, rather than just looking at it as should I or should I not play the NAF in general. If someone not of Native decent goes out and dresses up in fringed buckskin, sticks a feather in their hair, and starts spouting new age mumbo jumbo interspersed with "Native american" sayings while playing the NAF, I would certainly interperet that to be not only disrespectful but exploitive. But just playing the NAF for the sake of the music? I don't think so, not if it is done respectfully. It can be hard sometimes because I do feel that the NAF is an intrinsically spiritual instrument (and can often illicit a similar reponse from listeners), and it is perhaps a little to easy to want to equate that with Native spiritality or shamanism.

You make alot of great points Crazyquilt, this is an issue I have spent alot of time on and still pull out and mull over every now and then as well. I also find it interesting that most of the "prominent" flute makers are not of Native decent. And I have to wonder if anyone would have the cojones to point a finger at Doc Payne for not being Native after all the contributions he made to keeping the NAF alive.

I think for this I will slightly convert a favorite saying of mine; "It's not what you say but how you say it" to "It's not what you play but how you play it".

Great post and thread. should be an insightful discussion. you are a very cogent and talented spinner of words, crazyquilt. all i have to add is a quote from oscar wilde.... be yourself.. everyone else is already taken.

I like that, Jim!

I believe Creator owns our breath, too. I believe He gives it to us and He takes it back when He chooses.

While I would like to contribute to this thread, it is entering the realm of philosophical understanding, and of course, that means many views and the potential for much misunderstanding.

Perhaps it is best to say, that the flute is a world wide instrument, and existed in many cultures. Thus, the flute is not, and never has been, exclusively a North American Native instrument, but rather, the North American Native instrument is just one version of many versions, to be found in various cultures, around the world. To say that the Native North Americans, or even the broader concept of Native Americans of both hemispheres, have some sort of exclusive right to the flute, is simply inaccurate.

That said, the Native cultures in America should not be deprived of the use of the flute, in any ways they see fit, either.

I cannot ascribe to the notion, either, that Native peoples have been treated any worse or any better than peoples of any part of the planet, by those who invade and conquer their lands. It is simply a fact of life, and dwelling in the past, accomplishes nothing.

I ascribe to the notion that we are all human beings, and that we are all tribal, and we must get over our tribal tendencies, and begin to accept and honor other peoples, outside our own tribes, whatever they may be.

The flute is universal, and it has many forms. Accept it for what it is. A musical instrument of expression.

I am a buckskinner who attends rendezvous' that emulate the fur trapping era of our country. Aside from the fact modern rendezvous are in many ways quite unlike the ones of the eary 1800's we are still failry serious in our representations. One of the things commonly seen are men and women of non-Native descent dressed in deerskin clothing.

There are a number of American Natives that participate in this hobby and in our discussions I have yet to find anyone that is upset with our "borrowing" thier style of dress. (well the young gal in the leather halter top and breech cloth did fluster a few folks). Actually, I am always delighted and grateful for the stories and ceremonies my Native friends are willing to share.

I guess my point is there are a vast number of things us "white" folks utilize to this day that could arguably be atributed to Native American origin. But the same is true in the opposite direction. I don't see bidets advertised as French made versus French style made.

Crazyquilt,

Very excellent post!!!! You make quite a few wonderful comments and I applaud you for the depth of your thinking!
Though I have not fully digested all that you have written I would like to comment on a couple of things.

First I would think that you DO honor your ancestors with your playing ...you acknowledge and honor them and their origin. This to me means you understand your relationship to them and their Roots (relationship to Earth).

The idea of ownership I think could be discussed til the end of time. I think that no one owns the flute or the land or the drum or the wind or the sweetgrass...however we DO have a responsibilty to take care of them. I am refering to Native People when I say we though I believe that WE (inclusive of All Peoples) would benefit from re-examining our relationship to Creation and remembering how our (collective) ancestors carried out the responsibilty of caring for this place where we live and for the tool's we were given/have now(sweatlodge, drum, flute, etc.)


"(This brings us to a side point. Since, as I expect most of us know, Native tribes are not all the same, and aren't interchangeable, exactly which tribe owns the flute? Does the descendant of a tribe which did not have flutes as part of its heritage have any less 'right' to play the NAF than, say, a Lakota? Or any more right to determine the proper form and usage of the NAF than a non-Native, despite the fact that neither individual has ancestors who so much as touched a siyotanka?)"

The above question is one I have no answer for at this point. I will say that it is a GREAT question that requires sitting with...thanks!

How can one adopt, adapt and include from another culture without exploitation? I think it is important to examine this when we talk of who owns this or that. It is evident by the creation of the indian (don't like that word-it's like swearing to me) arts and craft law(The Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990 (P.L. 101-644) that the borrowing of "cultural" items for the express purpose of making money is an issue that needs addressing. It is a pervasive issue and has been and I think it goes beyond the making and playing and selling of flutes.


Truthfully some ofwhat I feel (discontent/sadness) as a Native person who builds flutes does not come from a non-native persons love for the instrument but from what I perceive at times to be a disregard for other ways of thinking about and relating to the flute. When I began building flutes almost 20 years ago I had not heard of flute circles, concert pitched flutes I did not see flute makers/players lined up trying to market their wares. As a maker I would sit with the person who wanted a flute and get to know them in a non musical way. I'll spare the details but I believe this truely made it a personal flute. This is how I still do it when possible. E-mails/phone conversations also can work.

I can remember a friend (Micmac) who has been making flutes for more than 30 years saying to me " Hawk do you remember when it was you and I" referencing the flutemakers in the state of maine. We were at a powwow and there was a line of would be makers/ players waiting for the open mic.

I have given flute making advice/guidence to people who have identified themselves as "white"only to find several years later they are some kind of native person who learned their skill from some old native person and now are masters...there is no need to go on about these experiences but suffice it to say it has not been just one event...
Please know that I am not pointing fingers at anyone just restating what Crazyquilt has said.

I think it best for me to read again what Crazyquilt has written before futher commenting.



I would like to add that, in part, your last paragraph stirred a few questions/comments (for later) but your last sentence

"So perhaps it's not an appropriation, but a partnership."

touched me!!!

I have not thought about it in this manner ... I thank You for causing me to revisit and re-examine

Truly a great Post. I thank You for Bringing it up Crazyquilt. In my Heart I feel that the Flute was a Gift from the Creator of All Things and All Peoples. And I know that He is No Respector of Certain Peoples. He Loves Us All Equally and what He has Provided for Us in All Areas of our Lives should be Shared with One Another. If we as Human Beings could just get over the "Us against Them" Frame of Mind and come to realize that it is really just Us trying to make it through together on this Planet, then I believe The Creator would Smile and say Well Done Children you have finally Come together in the Love and Unity I had planned for You All Along! Just the Feelings from My Heart for what they are worth... Many Blessings to All... Robert

What a fantastic post Crazyquilt...certainly gives you a lot to think about. I will have to read it several more times yet

Hawk, I agree that all peoples must recognize their connection to the natural world, and we must all be more protective of what is left of that world, and that means more than being "politically correct" and being "green".

for me, things must be practical - oh well, and I tend to simplify things...

- we are all human beings
- nothing is sacred as long as we do not decide it is sacred
- nothing belongs to us, it's all borrowed
- Before any culture or religion, there was mysticism, the experience
- different cultures, different religions but SIMILAR EXPERIENCES
- so whatever helps us human beings to connect to ourselves, to experience the
expansion beyond the personal structure, be it a Christian prayer,
a ZEN meditation or an inipi (sweat lodge), all is fine for all human beings.

I believe it is a question of being respectful towards all human beings.

So it happens quite rarely that I feel guilty about anything...
I do not feel guilty towards the Native American people when I play the NAF.
And I do not feel guilty towards the American people when I drink a coke.
And I do not feel guilty towards the Japanese people when I eat sushi.
And I do not feel guilty towards the Chinese people when I practice Tai Chi.
And I do not feel guilty towards the Valais people (a canton within Switzerland), when I eat Raclette
And I do not feel guilty towards you guys when I write silly posts
...... But I do feel some guilt when I eat a Big Mac Extra Large Menu
...... And I do feel guilty towards my neighbor when I play the NAF after 10 pm

Crazyquilt,

Kudo's to you for having the courage to approach what can be a sensitive subject. You did so in a heartfelt, respectful manner and have provided me with lots of food for thought. Thanks.

I believe that we are in an age where now more than ever people are searching for answers that they cannot find in "conventional" areas (ie: modern Religion). Now more than ever modern society has us more disconnected with the Natural World . The thought of your "Microfiber Indian" or "Plastic Shaman" is quite amusing and made me laugh. Undoubtedly they are misguided but that doesn't mean that they are not sincere. Hopefully they too will discover a more grounded path.

Anyway, thanks again for tackling the subject and for all of the responces so far.
Ed

Robin, I like that post too.

Much wisdom on this thread. Thanks, everyone.

Thank you Crazyquilt for taking up this important issue. I appreciate your wise and humble attitude. I agree, much wisdom in this thread. Let me try to give some input as well.
I am no Native American myself, I have roots in the Frisian minority in the Netherlands and work today a lot with the indigenous Sámi people in Lapland (I work as a pastor with contextualisation of church life into Sámi culture). Issues like the one we talk about now are discussed all the time. Can a non-sámi yoik (trad sámi chant), can a non sámi make sámi style handicraft, or wear sámi clothes? Views differ. Sámi in Sweden are clear about that no-one other than a Sámi can wear the traditional clothings. When I visited the Lisu indigenous people in SE China, they did not understand that Sámi view. They gave me traditional Lisu clothes and said, when I wore that in public, we like that, we feel that you are honouring our culture. I agreed, that was my intention. But the Sámi history is, that many non-sámi have exploited the Sámi culture, wearing their clothes, pretending to be Sámi and earning mony from the tourists. So I understand the Sámi view.

Now to the NAF. If anybody non-native would play the flute, wearing NA style clothes, making a show, pretending to be "a real indian" and making money that way, I would condemn that strongly. That is very clear. And it is important to hear what NA flute players say on this issue. As for myself, I play the flute, sometimes performing (not making money though, I am not good enough ) because I appreciate the flute, its ability to touch peoples spiritual strings, and it seems to fit well in a Sámi context as well. I respect and honour the NA culture, always prepared to share the little I know about the background of the flute. I would expect this to be OK.

Another thing is, that musical instruments tend to be used in other cultures than their original. The hulusi is no longer exclusively Dai peoples, the bagpipe is played by non-scottish, the kithara outside the Greek Islands, the tin whistle by many non-irish. As long as we acknowledge the culture of origin, I think this is enriching. As much as (for example) Sámi culture taking in instruments from other cultures. Maybe I feel that in the end, music belongs to humanity, as it is not so much constructed by humans, but rather given by Creator. To us all the responsibility to use this gift in a respectful and positive way.

A lot of text - take it for what it is, and I am open for any critical remarks - especially from Native American side, as it was to you this particular instrument was given by our Creator.

Gerard

So much wonderful stuff here...thank you all very much for sharing. There's a lot I want to say, and a lot of thoughts to still mull over. There is one thing I do want to make clear, though:

Hawk, or anyone else unhappy with the use of the word 'Indian': It was not, in any way, my intention to belittle or demean anyone. The NA folks I've known over the years -- not many, admittedly, but of diverse tribal and regional background -- have often seemed to use the word 'Indian' quite liberally, sometimes in preference to Native American. So that was where I was coming from; I should have been more careful & used only 'Native American.' Unlike some, I don't feel that names like 'Native American' are some PC BS --- words have power, and names especially so. Anything, of course, can be taken too far, but I always defer to the way in which folks self-identify. I've found that's the safest -- although, of course, it's not foolproof!

Thanks to all...I'll submit you to further verbiage tomorrow.

Gotta agree with Hawk......an "Indian" is from India. Just because someone made a presumptuous error, in the past, doesn't mean that error has to be perpetuated forever.

Kinda like "Sioux", "Cherokee", and a lot of other misnomers.

Still, it is hard to hold such misnomers against others, who aren't aware of the error, especially after all this time. So, those of us who have learned better, can set the example for those who haven't had the opportunity to learn correct terminology, and there will probably be errors made by myself concerning certain peoples, about whom I have not learned correct terminology, as well.

Crazyquilt,
No offense taken here. In my post I wrote what I did about the word indian more as a response to the title of the law. I know it is very confusing (for me) to know what to call people. As you said many Native people don't mind being called indian or native american.
I do not want to change the direction of your topic so I will reserve commenting on this issue for another time.
Let me say again Thank You for your thought provoking topic...

I agree Rick

In a previous post, I wrote
"so whatever helps us human beings to connect to ourselves, to experience the
expansion beyond the personal structure, be it a Christian prayer,
a ZEN meditation or an inipi (sweat lodge), all is fine for all human beings.
I believe it is a question of being respectful towards all human beings."

However, it does NOT mean that anyone who participates in an inipi ceremony (as example)
may claim that this ceremony is done in the Lakota way. That would be stupid and wrong.

I believe traditions in other cultures may only be truly understood if we
experience them in their original environment for longer periods.
Additionally, the significance of detail in a ritual is often the key point of the whole ritual itself.
It is essential to live on site until such traditions have been absorbed so
we can perform and experience every detail in a ceremony in full consciousness.

I have participated in about a dozen inipi rituals. Some were guided
by a Lakota person, some by white people. I have gone through some
deep cleansings in those rituals but I am fully aware that my experiences
are different from the experiences of the Lakota people as I lack
true understanding of their culture.

Coming back to the NAF - I play the Native American Flute, and I truly enjoy playing it.
It takes me to wonderful, peaceful places deep within.
But I am aware that I do not have (and will never have) the same relationship to the Native American Flute
as the Native American People have/had. That's not possible. I have not lived on site, am not part
of their culture.

But that's fine. I do not see any reason why I should feel bad or guilty towards the Native American People
when I play the NAF. As we all are human beings, some aspects of the experience of playing the NAF
will be the same, for a Native American as for me. And some (the cultural) aspects will be different. So what?

I like to put emphasis on the things that connect us, and not what seperates us.

Exactly, Robin.

In spite of all their efforts to do so, I doubt that any Native peoples today, really have all the knowledge and practices of the old ways, to share. Time marches on, and things change. Not much that can be done about that.

You are also correct, that learning about culture of any people, requires living the culture, for some period of time. You cannot learn a culture from a teacher alone. you must live it. The teacher can only guide.

Well of course no culture is static. Cultures are living and developing, new ways come, old ways are sometimes changed or abandoned. The only problem is when other dominant cultures (like western) are imposed on others. That has happened too often. But I agree, probably no-one today has all old knowledge. But still, those who live in a culture know the culture from the inside. That cannot be learned, I agree with that Rick. Living in the culture for some time can raise our understanding, but is no guarantee. Some people have lived near e.g. the Sámi culture, almost in it, and don't have the slightest idea. You also need an openness to the other culture. A wish to learn. A humbleness.
I feel that we can enrich eachother with our different cultures. That was clear a few years ago when 50 indigenous peoples assembled here in Kiruna. The NAF enriches my life, I value that as something NA cultures have given me. I try to pass that gift on to others.

Together do our different cultures show something of the diversity and richness Creator had in mind. In the end, we honour Him when we come together and share our culture heritages.

Oh well this became almost philosophical, hope you don't mind.
Gerard

It's honorable and respectable for Native Americans to embrace their cultural heritage. But, people are people.

It's been over 20 years, but I spent a few days visiting pueblos in New Mexico with my uncle when he was in his pottery phase. We'd actually go into the artists houses and while there was evidence of their involvement in their heritage, they were mostly like us. They had TVs and microwaves etc. So, I would imagine that the home of a family that wasn't involved in the arts or some other native expression, would look just like a normal American family.

In addition, I'd bet that there are as many Native American rappers as there are Native American flute players.

I'm not addressing the issue of white people taking on Native American customs, just that many Native Americans are likely losing them with each passing generation.

I do think it's a bit strange for white people to pretend to be Native American when they don't really have any of that heritage. Or when they want to be NA so bad that they look for an excuse, such as "My great, great, great grandmother was 1/4 Cherokee".

My, that's a pretty controversial post for me.

Jason

Of the quarter million Cherokee descendants today, only 15,000 are pure blood. All the rest are of mixed ancestry, such as myself, many with Scotch / Irish mix, and yet, it is still the largest single tribe in the US, with people of that heritage in every state in the union.

You are right....most live in regular houses, with regular mortgages, work a regular job, and try to preserve a little of what they know and understand, of their heritage.

Robin I like your perspective on this;

"I believe traditions in other cultures may only be truly understood if we
experience them in their original environment for longer periods.
Additionally, the significance of detail in a ritual is often the key point of the whole ritual itself.
It is essential to live on site until such traditions have been absorbed so
we can perform and experience every detail in a ceremony in full consciousness."

"I like to put emphasis on the things that connect us, and not what seperates us."


Rick,
I might suggest that maybe no People ( rather than just Native People) have all the knowledge and practices of the old ways. Knowledge results from experience and the experiences of (Native) Peoples today differ from our ancestors. However how we relate to and understand this knowledge is directly attributed to the experiences (Teachings )of our ancestors. Hope that makes sense. I do not think the connection to the Land and Water and Creatures that Live in those places has been broken nor the connection to our ancestors...These are the foundations by which Native People live and think and feel...This in my opinion IS the Old Way. This is something shared by All Peoples of the world (as Robin has eloquently stated) but some have maintained an active participatory relationship. Contrary to what it appears like I think many Native Peoples have (of course I am generalizing) continued to use this foundation to live by.

Being somewhat repetitive here but we All are Indigenous/Native to somewhere some culture. Many of us have forgotten(the Old Way), what can we do to remember? I feel it is essential to do this....

Jason I have not met any Native people who live in the style of lodges/dwellings that we once occupied. Also we wear todays clothes and use the tools of technology. Your are right that their are Native rappers and Native reggae,classical and other types of musicians as well as actors, doctors, lawyers...this in no way equates to loss of cultural identity. Like people all over the world Native people here adopt, borrow, take, give, aspects of other cultures and adapt/intergrate into their own culture. This is how culture grows ;

Gerard said " Well of course no culture is static. Cultures are living and developing, new ways come, old ways are sometimes changed or abandoned."

I another post I mentioned feeling discontent/sad at the direction that the flute is moving in. This is not because of the innovations and not just because of the standardization of it. It mostly has to do with lack of interest in the other ways of relating to it. At flute events people often ask if I have flutes in this key or that key. I have often responded by inviting them to discuss with me other aspects of the flute to which, most often times, people just leave. Those willing to discuss most often times buy a flute but more and more this is not the case. I struggle with this a lot...

Robin said "I believe traditions in other cultures may only be truly understood if we
experience them in their original environment for longer periods.
Additionally, the significance of detail in a ritual is often the key point of the whole ritual itself.
It is essential to live on site until such traditions have been absorbed so
we can perform and experience every detail in a ceremony in full consciousness."

Regarding the flute I belive Robins statement is accurate also.

Obviously there are many "Native" thoughts about the flute so I can only speak from my perspective and Experience.

To clarify (hopefully) I am not of the opinion that there is one right way to build a flute or the flute is only for certain people or there is only one way to think about the flute. What I am saying is I hope the Old Way of the flute does not fade for lack of interest either by the makers or players buyers or sellers.

I have seen portable sweatlodges advertised in magazines and courses in shamanology (I made this word up ) where anyone can become a shaman during a few weekend workshops.
This in my opinion is the direction that some of our thinking about the flute is heading.
What can we do? How can we be more inclusive (if important) of the Old Way and the New Old Way(todays experiences/knowledge)?

(Robin) "Additionally, the significance of detail in a ritual is often the key point of the whole ritual itself. It is essential to live on site until such traditions have been absorbed so
we can perform and experience every detail in a ceremony in full consciousness." Precisely !

Well I 've written a bunch and said little. Just would like to add that this converstation has been very excellent for me. It has caused me to re-examine some of my thoughts. Also some of your feelings and the eloquent way you have articulated them has caused me to feel not so distant from what at times has felt like your flute world and my flute world.

Robin if I may quote you one more time (for today)
"I like to put emphasis on the things that connect us, and not what seperates us."

This conversation has been this for me a connection to Our Flute World. Crazy Quilt and all who have participated thank you for this.

Well I gotta run again. I have been playing Kora everyweek for the past 15 years with the friend who introduced it to me. Tonight is Kora night.

Hope this discussion continues....

I am not native american,but all my life I have felt some connection to native american culture and I have allways felt native american in my hart.The creator bless us all and thank you for the gift of the native american flute.In Spirit,Knighthawk.

Knighthawk, I think more importantly, has the flute led you to the more important things in your life, and have you discovered the more important things about Native culture, than is the flute?

Remember that the flute is not the end, but merely the vehicle, through which you come to know those things that are most important.

Zak,

Very interesting thread and I wish I had more time to flesh out my own story as it relates to the subject matter here -- but it's crunch time for Yosemite and flute making comes first. I just want to put this thought out there, accompanied by the words of others who say it much better than I can.

For me, flute playing and making is an important part of the process of sinking my spiritual roots into the earth where I find myself living -- a personal process of becoming native to my bioregion, not by imitating the first cultures here (Though certainly respecting and learning from them.) but by looking to the mother of all cultures, the earth herself for inspiration, guidance, vision and balance. The native American flute is, in a way, helping the earth and the natural community to assimilate me and, I think, everyone who plays it. It's a conspiracy orchestrated by the birds, by the trees, by the wind! In response to that "declaration of war" you quoted, let me quote the following:

"We see in the present best efforts of groups of non-Indians an honest desire to become indigenous in the sense of living properly with the land."
-Vine Deloria. Jr. (Sioux historian)


"Of Celtic heritage, I consider myself a native American. Born in 1951 on the plains of southern Saskatchewan, I am neither a European nor anything other than a native of this land. I feel that after being here now for 500 years the time is long passed for the dominant culture to abandon destructive values of a perceived immigrant society and learn from the ancient inhabitants of this land ways of harmony with the Earth and with each other. My work with the flute speaks of this commitment."
- Ken Light (flute maker)


"One does not take as good care of a place when they imagine they are only visiting. In this age of constant migration, the best hope for the suffering environment may lie in people of every race and culture settling down and committing to a place that speaks to them, heeding the implorings of its spirit and tending to its needs. The survival of myriad other species, and the future of humanity as well, may hinge on the degree to which we are able to set aside our comfortable habits, preconceptions, and assumptions--and re-become conscious participants, discovering what it means to be native again."

"We each become more indigenous to the degree that we reside in our primal minds, in place, in the bosom of the land, in the lap of the moment. Becoming: coming to be, learning how to really be, coming onto and into one's self. In re-becoming native, we re-create a contemporary culture, community, vocabulary, spiritual practice, and finally a history true to our mixed-blood ancestry and the urgent and trying times at hand. Along with our grounding comes an almost forgotten humility. We look to the first "two legged" peoples to inhabit this continent for guidance, but we must also each establish our credibility directly with the land. We need to own our deepening connection, the fact that we too belong to the places we're promised to--even as we actively respect the ways of those peoples who showed respect to the land for so long before us."

"In time we may come to recognize being native as a condition of relationship...of sensitivity, engagement, reciprocity, and allegiance. To survive, those facing the tests of the next century will have had to learn to be placed. And they're likely to be of ever more mixed blood. They will be the descendants of Shona and Aborigine, Mongol and Semite, Hispanic and Cree, and they will have learned respect. They will be the proud inheritors of the affections of Aphrodite, the temperance of Chuang-Tzu, the resolve of Odin and Ogun, the determination of the Berserkers, and the spirit of Crazy Horse. No matter where they're situate, they'll have survived because they came to know and manifest themselves--completely and unapologetically--as indigenous."

"And this alone will have brought them a great peace. "
- Jesse Wolf Hardin

Hawk wrote:
"I have seen portable sweatlodges advertised in magazines and courses in shamanology (I made this word up ) where anyone can become a shaman during a few weekend workshops.
This in my opinion is the direction that some of our thinking about the flute is heading."
That is a serious concern. I see the same things over here, "shamanology" is popular, and old traditions are taken totally out of context and too often commercialized. Both the traditions and naive people looking for some spiritual meaning are exploited by those who see a market there. I would not like our thinking about the NA flute nor any other traditional instrument go that way. So Hawks question:
"What can we do? How can we be more inclusive (if important) of the Old Way and the New Old Way(todays experiences/knowledge)?"
is important. I have no answer. But for me it has been important and still is, to learn about the background of the flute. Where does it come from, what traditions and values are connected with it, etc. When I play in public, which doesn't happen often but sometimes, I like to tell a little background. That is important. I would love to have those discussions about aspects of the flute with you Hawk...

I think you formulate it so well: the Old Way and the New Old Way. That is exactly what it is about. Integrating new experiences in the Old Way, rather than exchanging the Old Way for some New Way. The former makes cultures develop, the latter destroys culture. The latter has happened (forced upon the people) too often in both your part of the world and mine.

Gerard

I would add that people are looking for a quick fix or a quicky dip into spirituality and that is why they do these things. But you cannot get a quick fix. I believe you must be immersed on emerged into it (spirituality or culture) to reap the benefits. And being immersed into it gives you a true outlook into it, and you get a different perspective of it and come to respect it, not the selfish 'get what I can' out of it.

Just my thoughts.

Jon,

Reading your thoughts makes me wonder why nature is so important to us. I have come to the conclusion that it is because nature is not man-made and so being in nature is being as close to the Creator as we can get physically. And being in nature is so peaceful, joyful, and healing.

I also believe nature is as the Creator is: I believe He is peaceful, joyful, and healing. When we are in nature we are nearest Creator. And as you all know, being in nature (with Creator) is like being with no one else.

It just doesn't get any better than that.

Tootie, we are what we are. That which we deny. We are the human animal, no different from the other animals, except for our abilities with grasp, and communication. It is our animal connection to the natural world, which keeps us in turmoil when we are separated from our proper environment.

We are intertwined with all the creatures of the planet, those whom we love, and those we are less fond of, as well. We feel most alive, when we are threatened by nature and some of our animal brothers. It is a part of us, that concrete and glass have separated us from, and to which we have ever increasing difficulty returning.

Those of us who have the opportunity to live with nature and not outside nature, are the happiest, no matter what worldly possessions we have.

To those who choose to ignore or deny the wisdom of the other creatures of our real world, I would challenge them to observe and communicate with their brothers in the wild. There is much to be learned there.

I posted this somewhere else in more words but here it is again.

I lost an uncle in an automobile accident. After the "civilized" funeral, an Native American sat at the head of his grave.
He cleansed the area with sage(I now know what he was burning), sang a prayer,(To the best of my knowledge), then he did a few more ritualistic things involving a hoop and some earth. In the end he sat and played a NAF. I was young, but watching that individual perform that ceremony, made my heart feel at ease and that my uncle really was in a place of rest. Several years later, I found the NAF. It took me to that place and that feeling again immediately.

I play and craft because it gives me balance, after twenty years of working in the tech field where there was no gray, only black and white. I had set aside anything creative, which was quite a lot. The crafting and playing of the NAF has changed me as a person. My children even comment about it.

Anthony

[quote name='Anthony Lee' date='Sep 12 2008, 05:50 AM' post='8662'
I play and craft because it gives me balance.....
Anthony [/quote]

There is so much beauty and wisdom in these post and I applaud everyone for sharing their personal thoughts. The NAF seems to go way beyond simply being a wooden instrument.
To me, there is not another instrument that actually possess the special sound, feel, look, and even the glorious smell of the flute. The NAF truly seems to have a magical built in spirit of it's own. Even though some of us may own numerous flutes, there seems to be a "chosen child" (or two) amongst the batch that makes a special connection that is difficult to describe in any other way except to expose it's true spirit . . . by making it sing!

Kudos to anyone, of any heritage, that puts their heart and talents into crafting flutes!

Peace, Marsha

Amen to that, Marsha.

Thanks you. You put words to my thoughts. I have been thinking in exactly the same way. It must be for that reason that sacred places i nature are so special.
Gerard

Hello All:

Its seems a new frontier is opening in the field of thought and right relationship. Old ideas that held so much substance are seen now as misinformed in my way of seeing it now. The previous posts leave me with hope and a positive affirmation that many are on the road ......a red road that suddenly seems wider than before. Keep walking.

Jan,

Nothing affirms my faith in a Creator like spending time in a wilderness area. Something much greater than I can even comprehend must be the cause of such complexity, diversity, beauty and balance. And when I stop trying to comprehend It, stop trying to dominate It with my rational mind, my thoughts are quieted for a moment by the stillness of an oak or the sudden flight from its branches of a Cooper's Hawk and It possesses me in the wonder of it all. Objective thoughts, even of a Creator, disappear and there is simply Presence. An Awareness that I am in this Moment, Here and Now, Connected to Everything around me through a Life Force animating me and flowing through Everything. This is when I remember, beyond all names or labels or personal story, who I Am -- who We All Are -- that Presence, that Awareness, that Life Force, call it what you will.

As you write "being in nature (with Creator) is like being with no one else." I don't know if this is how you meant that, but one of the great gifts of wilderness is that we can leave our culture behind for a while, with all it's opinions of who we are or how we should live or worship or think or be and maybe discover a fresh perspective or an original thought or idea. If we're lucky, a woodpecker might even show us how to make a flute. Or some other bird or creature might inspire us with a new song or poem. Or a solution may come regarding some problem in our life. Or, if you're a young person coming of age (or any age, really) you might be blessed with a clarity or even a vision of who you are, what your unique perspective is that would enable you to return to your culture and help it to grow and thrive. This "vision quest" relationship with wilderness is common to many traditional cultures around the world and yet so absent from the education system of this dominant one. Nature has so much to teach us and yet we spend our formative, educational years couped up in sterile classrooms.

Or, away from the classroom, in on-line "communities". Please no one take offense to this, it's not intended that way. But as wonderful as this flute portal is and has been for me in terms of meeting good people and making connections and even selling flutes (gratitude, gratitude!) -- where is anything of the natural world in this "cyber space"? Show me one, real, falling leaf to accompany and bring perspective to all these human words! In a natural environment I'm encouraged toward qualities of spiritual connection, invisibility of ego and quietness of mind if I want to get close to my fellow creatures. Qualities and values that are a matter of survival in a traditional hunter/gatherer culture. Whereas in cyber space, I basically don't exist unless I have something to sell you or some opinion to express. This also seems to be true in the marketplace capitalist reality of the dominant culture as well, especially in the entertainment industry. An industry that, slowly but surely, seems to be taking over the NAF.

I didn't intend to bring up this last issue when I started this response to your post, but somehow thought led me here. When I was first gifted a NAF, the native American who gave it to me, Gary Lemos, through his humble example and spiritual attitude associated with it, gave me a spark of the spirit of native values that accompanied the flute. And in doing so, taught me how to play. The fact that Gary remains invisible at the national level needed to win awards for flute playing does not mean he's been ineffective as a player. I can tell you, from personal experience, that the gentle sparks he gives to others through his music keep burning.

Gary and his partner Sarah also introduced me to Hawk and Geri LittleJohn when they were out this way in southern California, shortly before Hawk's passing. It didn't matter in the slightest to Hawk that I was non-Indian, though I remember being a bit sensitive to that at the time. Hawk was very concerned with environmental issues and very supportive of how I was bringing those issues into my music. And I was very impressed with the detail and care that Hawk and Geri put into their flute making, the connection to the natural world and to Spirit expressed with a bit of sweet grass tied to each flute. Hawk and Geri helped confirm my belief at the time (one I still hold to) that human caused environmental imbalance is healed at the level of Spirit. Quoting Geri: "Flutemaking is about more than making instruments. Hawk always said ... that if you played the flute, you didn't have to pray. If you're playing from your heart, the song is a prayer."

Health and blessings,

Jon

Amen, Jon.

[quote name='Jon Sherman' date='Sep 14 2008, 02:20 PM' post='8818']
Or some other bird or creature might inspire us with a new song or poem.

This morning I sat on my porch and played one of my flutes. The birds sat in the laurel bush and chirped and ate from the feeders. A couple sat in the limbs and cocked their heads at me as if to wonder about this sound! It was if we were sharing together in welcoming the morning and giving thanks for the provisions we had received.


Or, away from the classroom, in on-line "communities". Please no one take offense to this, it's not intended that way. But as wonderful as this flute portal is and has been for me in terms of meeting good people and making connections and even selling flutes (gratitude, gratitude!) -- where is anything of the natural world in this "cyber space"? In a natural environment I'm encouraged toward qualities of spiritual connection, invisibility of ego and quietness of mind if I want to get close to my fellow creatures.

I understand what you are saying, but these types of discussions, for example, help me to focus even more and put into words what is important. Two (or twenty) heads are better than one and I have gotten perspectives I would have never gotten on my own. I also believe having all these diverse people together can help us to be more accepting of others and other people's ideas. For me this online community is a very important connection to others and to other ideas. It has enhanced my spirituality and caused me to see things differently. It is NOT the same as being out in nature and communing. But it is a connection to other created beings and it can help us to learn how to relate to the whole of nature.


Whereas in cyber space, I basically don't exist unless I have something to sell you or some opinion to express.

I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying here. If you're saying you don't exist unless you are online, I would have to disagree. I think of so many of you a lot - hurricanes coming someone's way brings thoughts and prayers for safety. Finding a branch somewhere brings thoughts of you and your branch flutes. You folks are an important part of my life!

Just my thoughts as they are now. (I have the right to change them at any time! )

Tootie, perhaps what Jon means is that you need no computer to live, in spite of what folks might think. It might serve some useful purposes, but it is not essential.

You need no cell phones, or text messaging, or computers, or any of the other trappings of the electronic world, any more than you need to live in the cities of concrete and glass, instead of earth and trees.

Indeed, sometimes we cannot see the simplicity of life, for the complexity we force upon ourselves.

Mitakuye Oyasin.

AMEN!

well.... actually you don't kneed a flute to live either, but it makes it more fun

are "manmade" things less natural than "natural" things? after all, who "made" man? we are in and of creation, we are the creator, there is no seperation.

just some thoughts...

"I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying here. If you're saying you don't exist unless you are online, I would have to disagree."


Jan,

I was definitely not saying that. I was comparing cyber space community to the natural community and referring to what I guess you would call "online presence" -- all in support and agreement with your statement "And as you all know, being in nature (with Creator) is like being with no one else. It just doesn't get any better than that." I'm also in agreement with the positive aspects of internet community you state and could state more. I've enjoyed the forum here at the flute portal more than any other I've participated in, due to, in part, to the wonderful vision and leadership of Jeffery and Jeff and the civil tone they and the moderators help maintain here. And also due to the good and friendly people such as yourself, tootie, who participate here.

Or are you really a gray tabby?

Jon

Yes! That's what I was trying to say above, but in a long winded way I'm afraid. I find it much easier to express Mitakuye Oyasin with a flute.