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Warren
Hey all,

Some of us have found those humanly created places to play that give us sounds that come somewhat close to those natural canyon echoes. Bathrooms and shower stalls, cement stairwells, empty gymnasiums or natatoriums. But in other times we find that the carpet, popcorn ceilings and overstuffed furniture of our offices and livingrooms simply conspire to almost suck the spirit out of our flute playing; dead rooms, and music that seems to fall out of the flute and drop lifeless to the ground.
On another hand, sometimes we find ourselves playing in a public place and think, "if I only had some kind of sound system that could help get my music from the flute out to the people in a way that HELPS convey the music I hear in my soul."
So tell us, for those who can't take the shower stall with them to their next gig, or don't have concrete stairwells at their everyday disposal, who of you out there uses a sound system, or have heard systems used that you like? I'm not talking huge systems for professional musicians with unlimited means, but something that is relatively manageable for an average flute enthusiast. Do any of you have your favorite effects pedals or microphones you can't do without?
I will give my answer in my next reply to this note, but I really want to hear from others; to pass the pipe of wisdom around the circle and share each other's medicine. Looking forward...
Warren
QUOTE(Warren @ Jan 13 2008, 07:49 PM) *
...I will give my answer in my next reply to this note, but I really want to hear from others;...

____________

After experiencing the portability and enjoyability of what another Indiana Flute Circle member was bringing to our gatherings for our use, I went out and purchased a Carvin Stagemate S400D loudspeaker (and second matching satellite loudspeaker,Carvin 810). These speakers are very portable and nice sounding, but one of the great things is that you can plug in up to four mics into the back of it. It also has jacks for directly plugging in an electric instrument and a tape/CD/MP3 player. Further, it has some basic built in effects (flange, chorus, reverb, echo) that are decent enough for flutes; and, you can get an optional battery in it so that if you are unable to plug it in, you can still use the loudspeakers for a couple hours or slightly less. They've worked out great for me.

As for mics, I pretty much use the old standby SM58's. However, in some live recordings, we found that SM57's seemed to pick up a wider range of sound; this was a learning moment for me since I had always sort of thought these two mics were all but the same, save the windscreen in the SM58. I have tried the "Pick-up the World Mini-Mike" that you can velcro directly on your flutes. It gave decent sound in many cases, but seems inconvenient and cumbersome to me when I go to switch flutes.

One other thing I recently picked up was a Danelectro Chilidog octave pedal. I think this foot pedal would be pretty limited in an electric guitar situation, but it is pretty cool for flutes. Using the Chilidog, I can play my flute into a mic and get not only the octave I am playing out of the speakers, but also one and/or two octaves below what I am playing. It is an inexpensive but neat little tool.

So, that is what I use. What have others found to be helpful?
Geoffrey
Hi Warren,

I haven't had a ton of occasions to play live, but I did have a small P.A. system at one time. It was a little Peavy rig with a four channel, 60 Watt powered mixer. I used an AKG C-1000s condensor mic with it, but later got an SM-57 (wanted something a bit more rugged).

For effects, I used a T.C. Electronic M300 reverb/multi-effects unit which I really loved. I've since let it go to a new home because I no longer needed it, but it was a solid little unit.

I've known plenty of players who just use a little 25 watt guitar amp with a reverb/delay pedal. Very portable and nice for small venues (if you were playing to a coffee house size group).

I've heard good things about the Fender Passport rigs, and I heard someone using one at an event--it sounded HUGE for how little it was.
Cryss
Hi Warren,

Through Musicians Friend about 6 months ago I purchased about $600 dollars worth of equipment for about $260 as a package deal offering they seem to perpetually offer. Here is what I got:

A Behringer PMH518M (mono) rack mountable head that came with:
*180W 5-channel powered mixer
*24-bit multi-FX processor with 100 awesome presets including reverb, chorus, flanger, delay, pitch shifter and various multi-effects
*FBQ feedback detection system
*7-Band EQ
*2-track input/output so that I can play accompaniment tracks from a CD or mp3 player.
*1/4 inch jack and Speakon style connections

It also came with 2, 15" PA speakers with horns, 2 microphones, cables, etc.

It was a sweet package deal, and Behringer has won some awards for this unit recently.

It is a great set up with overkill power/volume for a nice, easy price. It sounds very nice...crisp, clean, and definitely a working unit.

Along with the 2 Behringer mic's they tossed in, I do have a cheapy wireless mic that clips to my belt, but a good friend of mine is giving me his Mini Flute Microphone as seen at the Oregon Flute Store. I am pretty excited about that!

I am still looking for a nice, used rack mount reverb, even though this has built in effects. Nakai has got me spoiled with what he has been using wink.gif
freckledsophie
For super portability and being inexpensive, I use the following:

http://oregonflutestore.com/home/of1/page_...hone.html?ctpl=

And:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--ROLMICROCUBE

And a simple guitar patch cord from Radio Shack to connect the two. Both are battery powered and at home in my flute room, I use the AC adapters.

And also when I'm home, I use this unit for the reverb and echo effects rather than those built into the Micro Cube:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--DGTRP100A

All are pretty cheap and once you've got them hooked up and you've got your reverb parameters set properly, you'd be surprised at how good it sounds. Plus, it's small enough to just toss in your car and carry into a venue or out into the woods easily. I can even put all three pieces of equipment easily into one of my motorcycle side bags with room to spare.
pvanheuklom
I received a Roland Microcube for Christmas, but still don't have a mic yet. I guess I'd like to hear more about the merits of condenser vs. dynamic mics for the NAF. I'm considering both the mini-mic from Oregon Flute Store (about $50 cheaper at http://www.themusicmotel.com/) and the Shure SM57. I might like to record some day, but right now I'm mostly interested in hearing myself play with reverb and maybe even playing for small groups. I really don't want to spend more than about $200. Any insights?

Paul
freckledsophie
Eventually, you'll probably want more than one mic. So, rather than take the time and effort to research all the different larger mics out there, get the Pick Up the World mic now and be done with it. For basic recording it will work fine until you really want a high quality mic. I have a Rode NT3 that is wonderful, but I rarely use it. Instead, I pick a flute, flop down in my overstuffed chair in my flute room, strap the mic to the flute and start playing. It's always hooked up to my Digitech RP100A and my MicroCube so it's ready to play.

Another advantage with the strap on mic is that you can get "enthusiastic" with your playing and don't have to worry about keeping your flute near the mic since it's on the flute itself.

By the way, I thought I'd just add a photo of my flute room here in case it gives anyone some ideas to work with.

pvanheuklom
What a great flute room! Thanks for the info. Pardon my ignorance, but what's the Digitech RP100A? I can look it up, of course, but I'd like to know why I might want to get one.
Michele
Very nice! I woud love to have a flute room, bt it would have to share the space with my treadmill, which would definitely take away from the ambience. I see some flutes I recognize because Ihave some as well, such as Colyn Peterson, Brent Haines, Jim Gilliland, and Butch Hall, but could you tell us about the others? Of course I could be wrong about the flutemakers (grin). You have a very nice collection.
Michele
freckledsophie
Thank you all.

The RP100A by Digitech is a guitar effects processor. Relatively cheap. It really has way, way more effects than the flute can use, but its reverberation and delay settings are rather extensive. And you and preprogram the settings and then click though them one by one. That way you don't have to guess at your favorite setting. It's always there. It runs on an AC adpater or 6 AA batteries so it's completely portable.

Starting at the top of the left rack, I have:

Patrick Olwell - Bamboo in F
Brian Revheim - old wine vat wood in D
Colyn Peterson - C
Ed Kort - Bb
Ed Kort - A
High Spirits - A
Randy Stenzel - G
Ed Kort - Purple Heart G
Michael Graham Allen - 1992 vintage 5 hole in G
Michael Graham Allen - Anasazi
And haning from the rack are two flute/whistles from Nashtavewa

On the right rack are from the top:

Ed Hrebec - Mark Holland signature in F
Geoffrey Ellis - Redwood in F#
Geoffrey Ellis - Jeff Ball signature in F
De Ruby - E
Colyn Peterson - C# http://www.woodlandvoices.com/WeepingCherry.gif
Butch Hall - C
Brent Haines - Madagascar Rosewood w/Ebony in D
Pat Haran - Cedar in Bb
Geoffrey Ellis - Redwood low G
Geoffrey Ellis - Redwood low E

You'll have to guess at what's hanging from the right rack.

The racks themselves were made by Russ Venable to my specifications. A beautiful job, I might add. He said he may start making them available to others on a custom order basis. You'd have to contact him, though.

On the middle table is a Guillermo Martinez double Mayan/NAF hybrid. A Moon Goddess by Xavier. and a strange flute from Mexico given to me by a friend. And that's a Wing down below.

Almost out of view to the left is an Ed Hrebec drone in E formerly owned by Garth Brook's wife. (Of Elysium Calling, not the country singer.) Also there is my very first flute, a High Spirits flute in F I bought on the road in Utah just outside Bryce Canyon. I'll always keep that flute.

I may sell or gift the High Spirits A. Also the Coyote Oldman 5 hole G and maybe the Butch Hall C.

Also, since the photo was taken, I've also bought one of Odel Borg's tiny pocket flutes. I used my tuner to pick from a dozen or so and it's really very nice. A fun flute.

Finally, at the left bottom of the photo, you can just see my overstuffed leather chair with the RP100A sitting on the table next to it. The Mini Cube is on the floor and you can just see the cord for the mini mic on the arm of the chair.

Oh, and there is a drum by Randy Stenzel's wife and various shakers and rattles hanging around.

My favorites and the ones I play the most are (in no particular order):

All three of Ed Kort's flutes.
The Randy Stenzel G (an exact copy of one of Mary's flutes)
Both of Colyn's flutes
And all four of Geoffrey's flutes. Most espcially the redwood F# which is a remarkable instrument.

Hope that answers all your questions. Cheers!

freckledsophie
Oh, here's a side view of the racks that Russ made for me. This photo shows them better.
Michele
Well 2 out of 3 isn't bad! I thought the top right was by Jim Gilliland. I recently got one of his in G and I am loving it. It is very light and responsive. It is rivercane. My first NAF flute was a bamboo flute I made myself at a workshop my husband and I attended. The one I made is very airy - Jim's are not, but I will always keep my first flute as well. Thanks for the tour.
Michele
Jeff G
For those looking to only amplify their flutes a bit, with built in effects. I picked up a VOX DA-5 for my office amp for my guitar. On a whim, i plugged a mic into it (via 1/4" to XLR adapter). Wow, what a great little flute amp! The sound is clean and doesn't color the sound of the flute. The built in effects are great and easily adjustable. It is also battery or wall wart powered. The batteries will run a long time before replacement is needed.

At 5W output, it can easily bring a quiet flute up to play along with an acoustic band.

For microphones, I adapted a small Audio Technica choir mic (condenser). I have a small wire holder that attaches to the flute holding the mic element a couple of inches away from the flute. It creates a very nice sound.
tootieflutie58
QUOTE(Jeff G @ Jan 23 2008, 08:52 AM) *
For those looking to only amplify their flutes a bit, with built in effects. I picked up a VOX DA-5 for my office amp for my guitar. On a whim, i plugged a mic into it (via 1/4" to XLR adapter). Wow, what a great little flute amp! The sound is clean and doesn't color the sound of the flute. The built in effects are great and easily adjustable. It is also battery or wall wart powered. The batteries will run a long time before replacement is needed.

At 5W output, it can easily bring a quiet flute up to play along with an acoustic band.

For microphones, I adapted a small Audio Technica choir mic (condenser). I have a small wire holder that attaches to the flute holding the mic element a couple of inches away from the flute. It creates a very nice sound.


Being a new flutie, I don't have a clue about this stuff.

Does that amp have reverb so I could sound like I'm playing in a canyon?
Jeff G
QUOTE(tootieflutie58 @ Jan 23 2008, 07:38 AM) *
Being a new flutie, I don't have a clue about this stuff.

Does that amp have reverb so I could sound like I'm playing in a canyon?

Yes it does.
freckledsophie
As does the Micro Cute from Roland. And there are a few others. I'd go to these two places and search for portable amps and look for the ones that are capable of running on batteries.

http://www.zzounds.com/cat--Guitar-Mini-Amps--2593

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitar-amps

Jeff G
QUOTE(freckledsophie @ Jan 23 2008, 10:22 AM) *
As does the Micro Cute from Roland. And there are a few others. I'd go to these two places and search for portable amps and look for the ones that are capable of running on batteries.

http://www.zzounds.com/cat--Guitar-Mini-Amps--2593

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitar-amps


I agree, there are lots of choices. The roland I know is also very popular.

If you want the next step up. Acoustic guitar amplifiers work very well. The nice thing about a bigger unit is you can have backing tracks and play them and have good sound. With the smaller stuff the backing tracks, if you have them, don't have a full solid sound to them. The small speakers just don't have the sound.
Wyrd
That Fender Passport rig looks awesome. All I would need other than that is a mic and something to create reverb right?
freckledsophie
Correct. I'd go with the Pick Up the World mic and a simple reverb unit. Delay is nice as well. For home use (and it travels well and can run on just batteries) I use the Digitech RP100A. A bit overkill as most of the features you'll never use, but the reverb settings are rather extensive and it allows you to save your settings.

Or search eBay for a little guitar effects pedal by a company called Boss. The model you want is the RV-3. So just search eBay for Boss and RV-3. It's not made anymore by Boss, they now make separate reverb and delay pedals, but the RV-3 can be found used pretty easily for about 100 dollars on the average. However, since you can buy a new Digitech RP100A for under 100, that makes the Digitech unit the better deal. But if size and simplicity is what you're looking for, the Boss unit is a good choice.

Boss also makes a reverb only unit that might work well for most applications. They can be had new and used as well.

Keep in mind that the Boss pedals, when run on battery only, eat them up. They only use a 9 volt battery and they don't last that long. You could use rechargable batteries and swap them out. Or simply use the AC wall wart most of the time.

Here's the current RV-5 reverb pedal from Boss: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Bos...edal?sku=151303

Here's the Digitech RP100A: http://www.zzounds.com/item--DGTRP100A

And the newer RP150: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Dig...edal?sku=156606

Here's the Digitech site: http://www.digitech.com/products/categories/MultiEffects.php

It appears that the RP100A is a discontinued model and that the RP150 is it's replacement. However, I believe the 150 doesn't run on batteries, so if that's a strong buying feature, I'd shop around for the RP100A. Also, it appears that the lesser featured, but still probably very nice, RP50 and RP80 also run on batteries.

Have fun!
freckledsophie
Hey!

I just noticed that the RP100A for sale at zzounds.com is on sale for only 43.95!! That's an absolute steal of a deal! Get one now!!

http://www.zzounds.com/item--DGTRP100A

And no, I have no affliliation with zzounds.com smile.gif
Wyrd
QUOTE(freckledsophie @ Jan 28 2008, 06:43 PM) *
Hey!

I just noticed that the RP100A for sale at zzounds.com is on sale for only 43.95!! That's an absolute steal of a deal! Get one now!!

http://www.zzounds.com/item--DGTRP100A

And no, I have no affliliation with zzounds.com smile.gif



I just placed the order!!! Thanks! I think I'll go ahead and order that wireless mic from Oregon Flute store and get the Fender passport rig! I should be all set soooooooon! I cant WAIT! tongue.gif
Wyrd
Do you guys think this 80w version will be enough for general home use?

http://www.focusedtechnology.com/0691003000-p80.html

Jeff G
QUOTE(Wyrd @ Jan 28 2008, 09:23 PM) *
Do you guys think this 80w version will be enough for general home use?

http://www.focusedtechnology.com/0691003000-p80.html


80W is more than enough.
Cryss
QUOTE(Wyrd @ Jan 28 2008, 09:23 PM) *
Do you guys think this 80w version will be enough for general home use?

http://www.focusedtechnology.com/0691003000-p80.html


Sure enough!

However, through musicians friend you can get PA systems, with mics, cables, powered mixers with <>100 effects for as little as half that. The one I have I payed 269 and its 180 watts so I can use it in public if need be.

This one isn't the one I have, but is even cheaper and a nice set up for 200 clams. It is 100 watts, but probably a lot more durable than the other if there is any thought of transporting it around.

Here is another nice little gigster too. This brand has won awards.
tootieflutie58
QUOTE(Cryss @ Jan 29 2008, 09:34 AM) *
Here is another nice little gigster too. This brand has won awards.


I checked this out. Does it have everything I need except for mic stands? Also, what would I need to hook it to my computer and record my music?
Cryss
QUOTE(tootieflutie58 @ Jan 29 2008, 08:55 AM) *
I checked this out. Does it have everything I need except for mic stands? Also, what would I need to hook it to my computer and record my music?


It does have everything but the mic stands smile.gif

As far as hooking to your computer, this is a whole new discussion. I will defer to someone with more experience. We do have some discussions here as you know, but I think you are asking more "hardware wise". If you have the freeware Audacity, etc. you can purchase a USB microphone, or use a preamp kind of devise to stick between the mic and PC. If you want to go simple, try a USB microphone. There may be adapters for XLR to USB...
Wyrd
QUOTE(Cryss @ Jan 29 2008, 06:34 AM) *
Sure enough!

However, through musicians friend you can get PA systems, with mics, cables, powered mixers with <>100 effects for as little as half that. The one I have I payed 269 and its 180 watts so I can use it in public if need be.

This one isn't the one I have, but is even cheaper and a nice set up for 200 clams. It is 100 watts, but probably a lot more durable than the other if there is any thought of transporting it around.

Here is another nice little gigster too. This brand has won awards.


Thanks VERY much! I might order that today! Is there a link for the one you have, Cyrss? If not I will go ahead and order one of the two you posted. SWEEEEEET!!!! Me = Excited


EDIT: This one http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Aud...stem?sku=630260 is in stock and looks to be pretty nice. I don't know anything about brand names though. Perhaps I should wait for the other one to be in stock so I can stick to a known manufacturer? Thanks to all of you for helping me with this.
freckledsophie
80 watts is way, way more than sufficient for home use. Also, I believe I've heard that system used in a small rec center and it's not bad for smaller venues.

As for getting sound into a computer, forget USB mics. Most aren't any good for anything more than speach. To get sound into your computer easily and cheaply via USB, get one of these:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAu...ace-?sku=241211

It comes with a "lite" version of their recording software as well. Though Audacity is good also. I have both.

They also have a refurbished unit for 59.99.
Geoffrey
QUOTE(freckledsophie @ Jan 29 2008, 10:15 AM) *
80 watts is way, way more than sufficient for home use. Also, I believe I've heard that system used in a small rec center and it's not bad for smaller venues.

As for getting sound into a computer, forget USB mics. Most aren't any good for anything more than speach. To get sound into your computer easily and cheaply via USB, get one of these:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAu...ace-?sku=241211

It comes with a "lite" version of their recording software as well. Though Audacity is good also. I have both.

They also have a refurbished unit for 59.99.


The only limitation to this piece of gear seems to be your inputs. It has a 1/8" input/output jacks and an optical input, so your mic (or your line output from your amp) cannot plug into it directly. You would need to have a preamp with optical outs, or a mic with a 1/4" jack at one end (to which you would have to use an adapter to get it down to 1/8").

This unit seem more suited for digital data transfer between your computer and other devices like a DAT machine. I would personally steer clear of it if you are trying to get a signal from your mic directly into your computer (i.e. you are trying to record your flute into an audio editing suite of somekind (Audacity, Ableton Live, Sonar, Cubase, Logic, Adobe Audition, Pro Tools, etc.).

A more appropriate choice for the same price might be THIS if you are looking for a USB solution. When it comes to audio interfaces, it is always nice to get one with an XLR mic input as well as a line input for other instruments. That way you can plug a mic straight in without adapters, or you can patch it in via an external preamplifier.
freckledsophie
Good point. I forgot I was using a mixer. I've got an earlier version of this that interfaces between either my Rode NT-3 or my Pick Up the World mic:

http://www.rolls.com/data/mx56man.pdf

http://www.zzounds.com/item--RLLMX56C The photo is of two units on top of each other, one viewing the front, one viewing the back.

Rolls makes a whole line of inexpensive mixers, amps, preamps, phantom power sources, and other cool stuff. Many of which can be run on batteries.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation/...rolls&Nty=1
Cryss
QUOTE(Wyrd @ Jan 29 2008, 10:09 AM) *
Thanks VERY much! I might order that today! Is there a link for the one you have, Cyrss? If not I will go ahead and order one of the two you posted. SWEEEEEET!!!! Me = Excited
EDIT: This one http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Aud...stem?sku=630260 is in stock and looks to be pretty nice. I don't know anything about brand names though. Perhaps I should wait for the other one to be in stock so I can stick to a known manufacturer? Thanks to all of you for helping me with this.


This is what I have, however I upgraded to 15 inch speakers. There is a package that has 10 inch speakers but has the same 180 watt head. Granted, I bought it for two reasons.... one, this is a decent brand that has a more than decent reputation for its class, and two because it comes with a ton of effects on the powered mixer. It also allows you to be able to plug in a CD and play along too.

Can't beat the price when you compare what the items go for individually.

The reason its back ordered is because they have been flying off the shelves and they cant keep them in stock very long. I know when it won an award last year musicians friend moved about 5000 units in a heart beat and I had to wait for mine to come in on back order. Granted, it is German technology (very stable) and it does take a bit of time for it to replenish at the warehouse.

Mine actually came in 1.5 weeks in spite of the 2-3 week note they posted.
Wyrd
QUOTE(Cryss @ Jan 29 2008, 04:38 PM) *
This is what I have, however I upgraded to 15 inch speakers. There is a package that has 10 inch speakers but has the same 180 watt head. Granted, I bought it for two reasons.... one, this is a decent brand that has a more than decent reputation for its class, and two because it comes with a ton of effects on the powered mixer. It also allows you to be able to plug in a CD and play along too.

Can't beat the price when you compare what the items go for individually.

The reason its back ordered is because they have been flying off the shelves and they cant keep them in stock very long. I know when it won an award last year musicians friend moved about 5000 units in a heart beat and I had to wait for mine to come in on back order. Granted, it is German technology (very stable) and it does take a bit of time for it to replenish at the warehouse.

Mine actually came in 1.5 weeks in spite of the 2-3 week note they posted.


Do you feel that the upgrade to 15s was a good idea? I might give them a call and do the same tomorrow... Hmm... decisions... Thanks again, Cyrss. I am looking forward to getting these setup!
Wyrd
QUOTE(Wyrd @ Jan 29 2008, 05:14 PM) *
Do you feel that the upgrade to 15s was a good idea? I might give them a call and do the same tomorrow... Hmm... decisions... Thanks again, Cyrss. I am looking forward to getting these setup!


I sent them a message asking about upgrading to the 15s... Alot of my friends are musicians, but most of them don't have PA type systems. I might as well upgrade so they can use my system if need be. Thanks again! I'll be sure to post pics once they arrive!
Cryss
QUOTE(Wyrd @ Jan 29 2008, 05:14 PM) *
Do you feel that the upgrade to 15s was a good idea? I might give them a call and do the same tomorrow... Hmm... decisions... Thanks again, Cyrss. I am looking forward to getting these setup!


Well, I am not sure if they will let you or not... I kind of had to twist the arm of a supervisor. Essentially the 12" is are MORE than enough, but the ones that were in stock were delayed by a broken conveyor belt at the shipping warehouse. I called daily for 4 days and then opted to request a supervisor. I used my years of experience as a Professional Services Manager to sweet talk a free upgrade due to my inconvenience. tongue.gif

In all honesty, unless you are pumping a full load on those speakers (and even then it is questionable) I doubt you would hear a difference for this application...truly. And both the 10"s and 12"s will give you a crystal clean sound, but you can milk more from the 12". A 15" handles more bass, and unless you are running a bass through it you might not need those.

I have a set of 12"s on my bass cab that will blow the windows out wink.gif
Wyrd
QUOTE(Cryss @ Jan 29 2008, 06:07 PM) *
Well, I am not sure if they will let you or not... I kind of had to twist the arm of a supervisor. Essentially the 12" is are MORE than enough, but the ones that were in stock were delayed by a broken conveyor belt at the shipping warehouse. I called daily for 4 days and then opted to request a supervisor. I used my years of experience as a Professional Services Manager to sweet talk a free upgrade due to my inconvenience. tongue.gif

In all honesty, unless you are pumping a full load on those speakers (and even then it is questionable) I doubt you would hear a difference for this application...truly. And both the 10"s and 12"s will give you a crystal clean sound, but you can milk more from the 12". A 15" handles more bass, and unless you are running a bass through it you might not need those.

I have a set of 12"s on my bass cab that will blow the windows out wink.gif


Ahh.. I didn't even think about 12s.. That does sound a lot more reasonable for my house anyway. I'll wait to hear back from them and post what they say. I was told I would have to build the setup I want since I would like to upgrade the speakers. More to follow and thanks so much, Cryss!
Cryss
QUOTE(Wyrd @ Jan 29 2008, 07:44 PM) *
Ahh.. I didn't even think about 12s.. That does sound a lot more reasonable for my house anyway. I'll wait to hear back from them and post what they say. I was told I would have to build the setup I want since I would like to upgrade the speakers. More to follow and thanks so much, Cryss!


... and the 12"s come already in a package so its all in one, for about half price.

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it, especially since its the same set up I have. I predict you will enjoy it as much as I smile.gif
Wyrd
QUOTE(Cryss @ Jan 29 2008, 08:55 PM) *
... and the 12"s come already in a package so its all in one, for about half price.

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it, especially since its the same set up I have. I predict you will enjoy it as much as I smile.gif


Order placed!! I'll post up pics when it arrives! Thanks for all of the help!
ifics
CRAP! The cancelled my order! They told me that they no longer carry that mixer!?! I called customer service and they couldn't help me pick one that is comparable. I am a little frustrated by it. I told the customer service agent that I will try and email tech support (already did once and they told me to call) and have them help me build the kit with a different mixer. I was told on the phone just now that tech support doesn't have a phone number even though tech support email told me to call, weird huh?!?

I'll update when I get an email response... Bummer sad.gif
Alex
I have a B52 Matrix 200 PA system. It runs around $399 to $499. I think that Guitar Center has one that includes all stands and mics for $499. All in all it is a good unit for small gigs (we used it for the Loping Wolf Flute Circle Winter Gathering and a number of small events). The built in reverb is not great, but adequate (I run a separate effects processor through it, but I would have to explain how I accomplished this). It comes with a wheeled gig bag that fits the components for easy transport. I wish that it had more power, but for the price, it sounds very nice.

Alex


B52 Matrix 200
Wyrd
QUOTE(Alex @ Feb 1 2008, 03:20 PM) *
I have a B52 Matrix 200 PA system. It runs around $399 to $499. I think that Guitar Center has one that includes all stands and mics for $499. All in all it is a good unit for small gigs (we used it for the Loping Wolf Flute Circle Winter Gathering and a number of small events). The built in reverb is not great, but adequate (I run a separate effects processor through it, but I would have to explain how I accomplished this). It comes with a wheeled gig bag that fits the components for easy transport. I wish that it had more power, but for the price, it sounds very nice.

Alex
B52 Matrix 200



That seems like a good setup too. I am going to wait to hear back about my previous order. I hope they can cut me a deal as they shouldn't have that up for sale if it isn't available. I hope to get something similar as I would like to stay under 400 for the heart of the system and save some extra for a preamp and nice mic.
pvanheuklom
Sorry...another dumb question. What's the difference between an amp, a mixer, and a PA system? Or are they just different names for largely the same thing? One could hook a pre-amp to any of them?
Cryss
QUOTE(pvanheuklom @ Feb 2 2008, 09:25 AM) *
Sorry...another dumb question. What's the difference between an amp, a mixer, and a PA system? Or are they just different names for largely the same thing? One could hook a pre-amp to any of them?


You know, these are not dumb but actually GREAT questions. These are questions I was asking at one point, as were just about everyone here I presume.

Here is a high level answer (hope it helps!):

Amp: This is the amplifier that gives power to your signal. Think about how you can plug an electric guitar into a guitar combo amplifier and you hear sound. In this context, its the same thing but without the speakers. The higher the wattage, generally the greater the volume. Of course, other factors are present, like how it takes more power to push a longer signal wave length which is why a bass amp is less loud than a guitar amp with the same wattage, but I digress...

Mixer: This is a device that allows you to dial in and balance signals. SO, for example, my powered mixer (powered meaning it is both a mixer and amplifer in one - some mixers have no power what so ever) has 5 inputs (and thus, 5 "channels") for microphones, instruments, etc. The mixer "mixes" the signals and allows me to make, say, the guitar louder or softer than the microphone. If I have a microphone and two guitars attached, I can make adjustments to the volume, tone, etc etc individually until I find a balanced or desired "mix" using the mixer.

PA system: This stands for Public Address System. This is the entire set up (amplifier, mixer, speakers, etc.) used to project sound. So when you are in the school gym, church, etc. and they are on stage talking on a microphone, their signal goes through an amplifier, mixer (prob due to having multiple inputs for mic's, instruments, a CD player for background music, etc) and then out to the speakers. That entire set up is casually referred to as a PA or Public Address system. Musicians Friend and other companies offer PA systems as packages that come with powered mixer/ amp, often with built in effects like reverb, canyon effects and delays, etc. (so you dont have to buy individual components), cables, microphones, and speakers that plug all together .. plug and play, and watch your neighbors run smile.gif

Preamp: A preamp would have your mic plugged into one end, and the other would go into the amp/mixer. The Preamp allows you to define nuances of the signal. Think of it like a water purifier and how it removes certain things you might not see, but you can taste the subtle differences. In this case you might not even notice much of a difference other than volume, depending on how you use it. For general purposes, a preamp might not even be necessary at this point for many. I have one, but was happy enough before even knowing that I might like one. I am glad I have it, but I probably wouldn't have missed it had I not been getting deeper into the recording aspect of things.

I do hope this helps. There are truly no silly questions. I am still asking seemingly simple answers to Geoffrey and others here that I have no clue about (you just dont see it on the boards as its typically a phone call) but that they have a simple answer for... then I walk away with new knowledge. Knowledge is powerful. Please ask as many questions as you can... and if you need any clarification on what I have presented, please ask again. I am sure there are others here who might have better answers/ responses than I provided.
tootieflutie58
Excellent! Now I understand so much more! rolleyes.gif
(Paul, you're reading my mind again... I've got to watch what I think laugh.gif laugh.gif )

I have a question. Cryss, you said something about reverb and canyon effects. I thought reverb WAS canyon effects.

Explain, please.

(Gosh, I love being around all these smart people!)
Cryss
QUOTE(tootieflutie58 @ Feb 2 2008, 04:46 PM) *
Excellent! Now I understand so much more! rolleyes.gif
(Paul, you're reading my mind again... I've got to watch what I think laugh.gif laugh.gif )

I have a question. Cryss, you said something about reverb and canyon effects. I thought reverb WAS canyon effects.

Explain, please.

(Gosh, I love being around all these smart people!)


Yes.. you are correct. One thing to note is that you can spend 500 clams on a Roland SDE 3000 and probably have hundreds of settings to choose from to make it sound reverby and canyony smile.gif... you can also do the same on a 100 reverb guitar effects petal. Within such units you may also find settings that may or may not be labeled or include the words canyon effects. It is merely a setting or groups of settings that are accepted as having that type of effect. Reverb is very adjustable... one can make it sound like anything from a dreamy echo, to a canyon echo, to that special type of echo you might hear in a cave or other such dwelling. Reverb is fun and you can do a lot with it with simple adjustments of a dial.

I hope I didn't confuse you with that answer. Can anyone jump in to augment? I think this is a great discussion and, in fact, feel free to open a new thread on "effects" and their uses. Effects, when used properly, can add fun and ambiance to playing that are quite impressive to hear, regardless of playing level.
tootieflutie58
What's a guitar effects pedal? I saw one on a website because it had reverb, but it didn't look like a pedal.

Do you really use your foot on it?

Stop laughing! tongue.gif I'm serious!

Could I hook a mic directly into it? Wait. I know. Your going to tell me I need a speaker and a preamp.

pvanheuklom
Cryss, That was actually really helpful. Thanks. I'm probably a long ways off from getting to this level, but it's nice to know more about it.
Cryss
QUOTE(tootieflutie58 @ Feb 2 2008, 05:19 PM) *
What's a guitar effects pedal? I saw one on a website because it had reverb, but it didn't look like a pedal.

Do you really use your foot on it?

Stop laughing! tongue.gif I'm serious!

Could I hook a mic directly into it? Wait. I know. Your going to tell me I need a speaker and a preamp.


They have a small on and off switch that is designed to be able to easily turned on and off by a guitar player on stage with their foot. If you have it on top of an amp, you can use your finger if you would like. If you are good at yoga, the foot might still be a viable option tongue.gif You might not necessarily want one for flute, although could work, .much like using the end of a wrench to drive a nail. It could work but isnt necessarily the right tool for the job. With the right cable ends (XLR to 1/4 jack) it could work. But I would not really go that route. And yes, you would then hook it to an amplifier. smile.gif

It the the best thing to ask yourself is "what do I want to do?". Are you going to play in front of an audience? Are you going to record? Are you just looking for something to have in your home that makes the flute sound really cool when amplified? I would suspect that if these are the types of questions you are asking, then you probably want what is behind door number 3...

If you have under 200 clams to spend I suggest getting a Roland cube and a microphone, with a cable that plugs into the mic (XLR end) and a 1/4 jack on the other (which plugs into the cube). The cube has built in amplifier (granted, it sounds nice but is low wattage) and built in reverb effects. If you have about 250- 300 to spend you can get a PA package with everything you need... amp, built in preamp, mixer, effects, speakers, mics, cables... an out of the box solution. With it you can play at home, play in public, etc. etc.

Or, you can just play the flute as it is. The Native peoples of the world didn't have amplification and just let their heart and soul be amplified with the flute as the tool. We do talk a lot about these tools and toys, but in all honesty there really is no need unless you are going to take it to the performance level or the level of recording. Toys are fun, but not always necessary to enjoy this most sacred of instruments that carries our thoughts, love and intentions through our breath and through the flute.

These are excellent questions! Please to continue as you have them!
pvanheuklom
QUOTE(Cryss @ Feb 2 2008, 08:03 PM) *
Or, you can just play the flute as it is. The Native peoples of the world didn't have amplification and just let their heart and soul be amplified with the flute as the tool. We do talk a lot about these tools and toys, but in all honesty there really is no need unless you are going to take it to the performance level or the level of recording. Toys are fun, but not always necessary to enjoy this most sacred of instruments that carries our thoughts, love and intentions through our breath and through the flute.

Amen, Cryss. I have a Microcube and will probably get the PUTW mic mostly for the canyon effect, but I still love to play in the bathroom and in my front entryway with their hard tile floors. I find that if I just face a wall with the flute about a foot away the sound fills all my senses. If I close my eyes I can just about hear the water dripping from the stalagtites--of course, that could be the icicles hanging from my gutters. Either way, I get shivers.
tootieflutie58
QUOTE(Cryss @ Feb 2 2008, 11:03 PM) *
Or, you can just play the flute as it is. The Native peoples of the world didn't have amplification and just let their heart and soul be amplified with the flute as the tool. We do talk a lot about these tools and toys, but in all honesty there really is no need unless you are going to take it to the performance level or the level of recording. Toys are fun, but not always necessary to enjoy this most sacred of instruments that carries our thoughts, love and intentions through our breath and through the flute.


You know what, Cryss? You're right. I do want to hear canyon echos one of these days when I play, but right now I just need to relax, really learn how to play, and enjoy myself. I really don't want to complicate this thing. I want it to simply be a spiritual experience and a tool for expressing my heart.

Thanks for putting my perspective back where it needs to be smile.gif .
Cryss
I have found that these kinds of things just happen to fall into our laps as well...

Again, whenever you have a couple hundred bucks laying around you at least know what you might want to purchase. Turn key kits with effects, etc are always going to be around, and there are always going to be people selling their gear at half the cost as the bought something bigger. For now, just enjoy your flute... get to know it like a lover... let it play your heart strings and you might just find places in nature that you accidentally came across to be more powerful than any digital environment could produce. In fact, I am preaching to myself as I need to leave the office at home/work and get my butt out there and lean up against a tree and play the darn thing!

Well done on the journey you took in inquiring about this. You now have knowledge and now are able to shelve it away for a rainy day.

Now go play your flute smile.gif
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